Overview:
Electric Vehicles are a key part of our tomorrow and how we get there. If we can get all the fossil fuel vehicles off our roads, out of our seas and out of our skies, we'll have a much better environment. This community is where we discuss the various different vehicles and news stories regarding electric transportation.
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E.V.s tend to be pricier than comparable gas cars
Only really true in the United States. On the global market, some of the cheapest cars in the world are EVs. The Chang Li micro-EV with air conditioning and solar charging can be purchased for as little as $2k. The compact BYD Seagull sells for around $10k
Problem is... it's illegal to import these vehicles to the United States, thanks to protectionist policies championed by our "business friendly" Congress and China-hostile State Department.
Business friendly *
*terms and conditions apply- only available to us companies who can ~~bribe~~ Er lobby congress
That's because the Chinese government is heavily subsidizing EVs, explicitly to monopolize global EV and battery manufacturing. The US reaction isn't great. Instead we should be doing the same. Our EV's should only cost $15K because ford gets paid $30K by the government for each one they make.
American companies would just raise the price of the cars. China also has price control.
Probably true
That’s because the Chinese government is heavily subsidizing EVs
What are the subsidy rates on these vehicles? How much should the market value of a Seagull be?
Our EV’s should only cost $15K because ford gets paid $30K by the government
Do you honestly believe these compact Chinese EVs cost $45k/ea to make, when they're less than half the size of an American Sedan and with far less administrative overhead?
Seems like you missed something there, op didn't mention how much the China models actually cost. Only that they're subsidized and that we should also subsidize
Only that they’re subsidized
They claimed the vehicle was subsidized without pointing to any subsidies.
In the US, you can at least put your finger on the $7500 EV tax credit. With China, its just a bunch of handwaving mixed with incredulity that vehicles can be produced so cheaply.
Subsidizing costs can come in a number of ways. Not just to customers at the point of sale. They could have subsidized labor, materials, patent licensing, and tax breaks. All artificially lowering production costs, to lower prices, to create a Chinese dominant position in the global EV market. Because we know that's what the Chinese government wants. That's what the "Belt and Road Initiative" is.
They could have subsidized labor, materials, patent licensing, and tax breaks.
You can play this game in any country by pointing to the publicly available infrastructure and utilities. China having a cheap, robust education and transportation system with low cost public utilities and an efficient legal bureaucracy isn't a subsidy, its an efficiency.
that’s what the Chinese government wants
That's what every country wants. You think the Germans and the Brits don't want Volkswagons or Aston Martins to be the dominant global automotive brand?
That’s what the “Belt and Road Initiative” is.
Claiming the BRI as a subsidy is exactly what I'm talking about. They're building value-add infrastructure to reduce the natural economic friction of trade and travel. That's a material improvement to the market, not a state-sponsored loss per unit of production.
China having a cheap, robust education and transportation system with low cost public utilities and an efficient legal bureaucracy isn't a subsidy, its an efficiency.
None of those are subsidies, or what I ment.
That's what every country wants. You think the Germans and the Brits don't want Volkswagons or Aston Martins to be the dominant global automotive brand?
No. They're certainly not acting like it. Not doing anything serous to support that goal.
Claiming the BRI as a subsidy
Not what I did. It's an economic global power play, to replace the US and USD as "The" world power. Subsidies are just part of the plan.
It’s an economic global power play
Building interasiatic high speed rail is no more a power play than digging the Panama Canal or building up the Singapore port network.
These are material improvements to international trade and travel. You're describing them like some kind of corporate bust out.
You keep mentioning things as if I was talking about them first.
Who are you supposed to be responding to? Are you having multiple conversions and getting us mixed up.
What are the subsidy rates on these vehicles? How much should the market value of a Seagull be?
I'm Europe, the BYD Dolphin starts at 23k Euros, so that's probably pretty close to the nonsubsidized price.
Idk if you can compare a Civic with an Accord and call the $4000 difference a subsidy.
But if we're being generous and ignoring the Euro/USD currency spread, you're still talking about a $7000 subsidy. Roughly what Americans give out in EV credits. Except its for a car that's still cheaper than its American equivalent.
In addition to subsidies, part of the reason the Chinese EVs cost so little is due to how much less workers are paid there.
There are fewer local engineers to compete with in America than in China, so salaries are higher here as a result of the scarcity. So the optimal strategy for Chinese engineers is to come to the US and spend a few years earning big salaries at Google or Amazon or Apple, then move back to China to start their own companies.
That's before you get into the amenities provided by Chinese municipalities, the lower cost of living, and the business friendly attitude of the current government.
I like things like this. I was able to find some pretty solid used EVs. Still going to hold off as my current car is fine and I mostly use bikes or transit, but this is good to know for a someday thing :)