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What's up with all the China hype on Lemmy? These projects are impressive, no doubt, but their cost in terms of human rights violations are pretty high. I'm speaking generally, I don't have the specifics with regards to this subway system. Either way it's not really comparable to a project like this in a country like Canada imo.
I don't know about Canada but the USA has been pro-child factory work lately. China's wages have been rising faster than expected so they have gone all-in on automation. So when I see people claim their stuff is cheap because of "slavery" or human rights, it reads like projection.
I'm from neither the US nor Canada, and in my case it certainly isn't a matter of projection. I'm sure things have been getting a lot better for many people in China. However, it is still the case that China has a lot of human rights issues which are simply not as widespread in a lot of Western countries, the US included. And due to nation wide systems, such as hukou, it is very difficult for the population in poorer, rural areas to work legally in more affluent areas where the pay is higher. My understanding is that this has led to large scale "illegal migration" within the country's borders, where workers are paid far less (sometimes not getting paid at all), work under poor conditions, and suffer abuses at the hands of their employers with little to no legal recourse due to their illegal status. China is a very inequitable society, and a lot of the misery that its less rich and powerful citizens have to deal with goes unnoticed by the rest of the world (and indeed the rest of its population), because we see stuff like this and are impressed by China's progress. And no doubt that there's actually been progress in a lot of areas, but the somewhat tired "at what cost?" question is still as pertinent as ever.
None of this is a defense of the US or Canada. Just saying that for the average person, China is probably a worse place to live and to work in.
Hukuo in modern China could be perceived as prioritizing the right to have a home over choosing to have none. "At what cost" includes homelessness and higher unemployment rates. We are quick to highlight where there is a lack of right in China but not how it reflects on our own lack of rights. That is to say, they aren't trading their rights for economic progress, which is how the west often frames progress (our foreign sweat shops are good actually because it helps them in the long run). They are trading one set of rights for another.
Some countries want to sell the image of "China is the absolute evil", thus from this logic everything "good" must equal something very evil.
We donβt have to agree with Chinaβs politics to appreciate that they did a positive thing. And we shouldnβt have to emulate their politics to get a thing done. We should be able to do it
Something about a street being made that leads into hades.
What helps is that the aumomotive/gas industry lobby there isnt so effective.
lol, as if it's all magic?
Does the sinkhole caused by slapdash construction feature on the map?
How about the shed where 4 people died during construction?
https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202109/11/WS613ba6e7a310efa1bd66ebdc.html
We have had industrial accidents and deaths as well... We may have better safety standards but going from no subway system to a massive full city system more robust than Western countries in a fraction of the time is pretty remarkable.
Digging tunnels is dangerous. Especially if you dont have a century of experience to build off of.
Also especially if you don't care that much about your workers safety. If human lives are just a bunch of statistics to you, things become a lot easier
There are countries where that is absolutely true, look at any major construction project in the gulf states, and counties where that is much less true.
At least during my time in China, I saw more workers wearing PPE and taking measures such as using water to stop particulate matter from getting into the air than in Korea and way more than Vietnam and other developing countries. I understand it was very different 20 years ago.
I don't have data, but I would be quite surprised if China had significantly more injuries per hour worked in construction than Korea.
This is like the 2 extremes. China with terrible human rights violation and sloppy construction and cities where even thinking about mass public transit is akin to killing puppies.
boiling down different countries having different things as one of them 'winning' and 'beating us' always fills me with nuclear levels of contrarianism. can tychus findlay from starcraft have a lit cigar in his mouth? NO, because china doesnt allow smoking in media. Guess we're beating them!
While your comment is very amusing, accessibility and congestion are pretty high up on the list of things that make a place "nice." A deep Investment into public transit is very likely to have a positive impact on an inhabitant's happiness.
(Incidentally, it's ironic that you have leapt to the conclusion that one of these cities is "winning" while nothing of the sort is stated in the post, only then to take objection to people drawing such conclusions.)
Orange vs Apple! Who will win!
That being said I do wish every country would have a better public infrastructure.
Just out of curiosity if you do have recent research in economy on the impact of subway, tram, bus, bike lanes, etc on both productivity AND happiness, please do share. I'm already convinced but I'd love to learn more on how and why.
Talking about Chinaβs human rights issues right away is very strange. Nobody does this if someone mentions a US project.
A nation's big construction projects tend to happen when labour is at its cheapest.
I might be wrong but a lot of it's wikipedia page looks like this city was completely reconstructed from the ground up in said period of time that makes it too exceptional for this comparison and not a usual occurence even in China. It became a major hub of China-EU trade upping it's importance and neccesitating a boost in infrastructural efficiency while it's population effectively doubled. A great move all around tho.