this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2025
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Mildly Infuriating

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[–] Logical@lemmy.world 28 points 3 days ago (7 children)

What's up with all the China hype on Lemmy? These projects are impressive, no doubt, but their cost in terms of human rights violations are pretty high. I'm speaking generally, I don't have the specifics with regards to this subway system. Either way it's not really comparable to a project like this in a country like Canada imo.

[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (6 children)
[–] flango@lemmy.eco.br 6 points 3 days ago

Some countries want to sell the image of "China is the absolute evil", thus from this logic everything "good" must equal something very evil.

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[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 13 points 3 days ago (1 children)

We don’t have to agree with China’s politics to appreciate that they did a positive thing. And we shouldn’t have to emulate their politics to get a thing done. We should be able to do it

[–] beejboytyson@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

Something about a street being made that leads into hades.

[–] zeca@lemmy.eco.br 8 points 3 days ago

What helps is that the aumomotive/gas industry lobby there isnt so effective.

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[–] hansolo@lemmy.today 26 points 3 days ago (4 children)

lol, as if it's all magic?

Does the sinkhole caused by slapdash construction feature on the map?

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/subway-under-construction-collapses-chinas-chengdu-creating-sinkhole-2024-06-21/

How about the shed where 4 people died during construction?

https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202109/11/WS613ba6e7a310efa1bd66ebdc.html

[–] iridebikes@lemmy.world 14 points 3 days ago

We have had industrial accidents and deaths as well... We may have better safety standards but going from no subway system to a massive full city system more robust than Western countries in a fraction of the time is pretty remarkable.

[–] Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz 11 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Digging tunnels is dangerous. Especially if you dont have a century of experience to build off of.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 14 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Also especially if you don't care that much about your workers safety. If human lives are just a bunch of statistics to you, things become a lot easier

[–] Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz 6 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

There are countries where that is absolutely true, look at any major construction project in the gulf states, and counties where that is much less true.

At least during my time in China, I saw more workers wearing PPE and taking measures such as using water to stop particulate matter from getting into the air than in Korea and way more than Vietnam and other developing countries. I understand it was very different 20 years ago.

I don't have data, but I would be quite surprised if China had significantly more injuries per hour worked in construction than Korea.

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[–] HugeNerd@lemmy.ca 71 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (6 children)

Chengdu is the capital city of the Chinese province of Sichuan. With a population of 20,937,757 at the 2020 census.

Toronto is the most populous city in Canada and the capital city of the Canadian province of Ontario. With a population of 2,794,356 in 2021

[–] zockerr@lemmy.world 82 points 3 days ago (11 children)

Meanwhile Hamburg, Germany with only 1.8 Million: 1000003619

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[–] TheCleric@lemmy.org 16 points 4 days ago (10 children)

DONT BRING NUANCE AND LOGIC TO A SENSELESS FEELINGS-BAITING POST! It doesn’t MATTER the city layout over top of it, the context of rapid and rampant industrialization in China, or something as inconsequential as number of people!

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 19 points 3 days ago (6 children)

i don't understand your reasoning here. are you saying that Toronto hasn't needed more subway lines than a couple extensions in 15 years? how does the number of people affect the lines? i would think it should affect the number of trains and trips. the lines would be more about where people live and want to go, no?

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[–] napkin2020@sh.itjust.works 14 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

NYC with almost half of the population of Chengdu.

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[–] SirEDCaLot@lemmy.today 90 points 4 days ago (40 children)

All jokes aside, things like this are why China is beating us. I am absolutely not a fan of the Chinese government, but the simple fact is they get shit done.

[–] rustydomino@lemmy.world 45 points 4 days ago (20 children)

It helps that in China you can’t own land. All the land is owned by the government. You only have “use rights” and for a limited time (something like 80 years - I forget the exact number). So when it comes time to build infrastructure the government just tells you to gtfo.

[–] rustydomino@lemmy.world 32 points 4 days ago (3 children)

Look to public transit development in Taiwan as an example of how to do it right in a democratic nation. There are still loads of problems but the Taiwanese government can’t just take your land outright. Taipei especially has seen phenomenal growth in its metro development in the last 20 years.

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[–] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 27 points 4 days ago (1 children)

America is no different. Try not paying your land tax.

The only difference is that, in America, someone needs to shout "eminent domain!" first and slip you $500 for your house.

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[–] Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz 14 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (4 children)

China has stronger property laws than the US, look up stuck nail houses. If the US wants your property, they can eminent domain your shit. In China, developers have literally had to swerve highways around property or build shopping centers around that one person who wont sell

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[–] bleistift2@sopuli.xyz 118 points 4 days ago (13 children)

I guess it’s easier to undertake a massive infrastructure project if you can just tell residents to move it or else…

[–] drkt@scribe.disroot.org 88 points 4 days ago (16 children)

The idea that you get to put a stake in the ground and then that plot of dirt yours forever is insane. The amount of infrastructure projects in Denmark that are put on hold indefinitely because locals are upset, not at being forced to move, but because they think they own their land and the view, is nuts.

[–] bleistift2@sopuli.xyz 60 points 4 days ago (13 children)

I agree. There needs to be a middle ground. In Germany, NIMBYs opposed to wind turbines because they’re supposedly loud and ugly, as well as NIMBYs opposed to high-capacity power lines have become somewhat of a meme.

The right way to handle this is buying the land at a reasonable price (where you actually need to build on someone’s land, not buying ‘the view’).

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[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 31 points 4 days ago (5 children)

Gestures in eminent domain.

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[–] metallic_substance@lemmy.world 60 points 4 days ago (11 children)

I don't care about the post itself, but OP, in the last 24 hours you've made something like 80 posts. What the fuck?

[–] Davriellelouna@lemmy.world 58 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (6 children)

I'm posting an absolute shit ton of content to support Lemmy.

You aren't the first one to notice :)

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[–] burgerpocalyse@lemmy.world 19 points 3 days ago (3 children)

boiling down different countries having different things as one of them 'winning' and 'beating us' always fills me with nuclear levels of contrarianism. can tychus findlay from starcraft have a lit cigar in his mouth? NO, because china doesnt allow smoking in media. Guess we're beating them!

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[–] A_norny_mousse@feddit.org 59 points 4 days ago (30 children)

Population: Chengdu over 20 million vs. under 3 million in Toronto.

The maps above also seem to be differently scaled.

Also, the fact that it has technologically developed fast in the past decades, as compared to Canada that has developed steadily in the past century, is not really the gotcha OP seems to imply it is.

That said, it's perfectly possible that public transport in Toronto leaves much to be desired - without comparing it to Chengdu.

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[–] rozodru@lemmy.world 44 points 4 days ago (5 children)

as someone who lives in Toronto I mean....you really don't need an extensive subway network here. We have a lot of buses and several lines of street cars (trollys, trains on the road, whatever you call them where you live).

So what's being shown here is ONLY the subway network. it doesn't show the vast street car lines would would make it look A LOT like the China photo.

[–] 9488fcea02a9@sh.itjust.works 25 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (4 children)

mean....you really don't need an extensive subway network here

Found the 905'er

The streetcar network is a complete shitshow. Multiple streetcars bunched up, with hundreds of people inside, being blocked by a few SUV drivers and parked cars on the side of the street.

Its faster to bike or walk in most cases.

Same for the buses. There's a reason the bus lines here have nicknames like "the sufferin' dufferin"

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[–] buttnugget@lemmy.world 11 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Talking about China’s human rights issues right away is very strange. Nobody does this if someone mentions a US project.

[–] NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago (1 children)
[–] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 6 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Because the US has no human rights violations?

/s

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[–] utopiah@lemmy.world 15 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Orange vs Apple! Who will win!

That being said I do wish every country would have a better public infrastructure.

Just out of curiosity if you do have recent research in economy on the impact of subway, tram, bus, bike lanes, etc on both productivity AND happiness, please do share. I'm already convinced but I'd love to learn more on how and why.

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[–] altkey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 3 days ago

I might be wrong but a lot of it's wikipedia page looks like this city was completely reconstructed from the ground up in said period of time that makes it too exceptional for this comparison and not a usual occurence even in China. It became a major hub of China-EU trade upping it's importance and neccesitating a boost in infrastructural efficiency while it's population effectively doubled. A great move all around tho.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu

[–] alexc@lemmy.world 29 points 4 days ago (5 children)

Public transport policy in Toronto is a disaster. It is a complete disappointment of a city and an ugly blight on the landscape that serves only captialism and vapid mediocrity

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[–] kandoh@reddthat.com 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

A nation's big construction projects tend to happen when labour is at its cheapest.

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