MeanwhileOnGrad

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Meanwhile On Grad

Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!

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Alternatively, a detailed blog post about Tankies.

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Sh.itjust.works Instance rules apply! If you are from other instances, please be mindful of the rules. — Basically, don't be a dick.

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goat@sh.itjust.works

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You Don't Fix Anything By Getting Rid of Democracy and Transparency (media.piefed.ca)

submitted 1 month ago by Sunshine@piefed.ca to c/meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works

323 comments fedilink hide all child comments

It's not fun interacting with them when they often want to engage in ad hominems. This is why I have no interest in the tankie triad.

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[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago (2 children)

How about denial of UN-verified sexual assault because it happened against Bad Camp?

[–] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It's like nuance doesn't exist.

Yes, there were a lot of false accounts of rape on October 7th that were obviously framed based on hateful stereotypes intended to dehumanize. There were also actual rapes that did happen. But to some people everything is black and white and all they care about is whoever is on their 'side'.

[–] goat@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

You'll need to supply evidence for those claims. Creating false accounts of rape is very serious.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au 12 points 1 month ago (5 children)

https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm

I've read the whole report, that's a short summary created by the UN investigators. Basic TL;DR of the whole situation:

Rape of Israeli women by people invading on October 7th was widespread
The report stops short of claiming it was done by "Hamas" or in any systematized or sanctioned fashion. A lot of people who took part in the attack were not Hamas, and it was totally impossible to sort out which specific person had done any specific attack, so they didn't make that claim. It happened a lot though.
The Israeli government and the New York Times both lied about some specific instances of rape, just because it's in both of their DNA to make up pro-Israel bullshit. The investigators who made the report debunked some of the Israeli government's claims, which was easy, and based their findings mostly on objective evidence instead of what anyone from Israel told them.

That's the short version. Various people have seized on point #2 or point #3 to claim that point #1 didn't happen, but it did.

Also, I think that some people on Lemmy love bringing this up, because it winds up painting anyone who cares about the truth into the "pro-Israel" side of the debate, and then they can call them a Zionist.

Anyway, yes, the people who did October 7th definitely raped a lot of people. It doesn't mean Israel should be committing a genocide. If it helps clarify things, the Israeli government has been facilitating aid for Hamas for years because they love having things like October 7th happen and give them excuses, and they love when Hamas rapes people or takes hostages, for the same reason. They wish it would happen every day, and so then they could talk about it and pretend even harder that shooting little kids in the groin or starving entire families to death is totally justified.

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[–] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-un-rape-oct7-hamas-gaza-fe1a35767a63666fe4dc1c97e397177e

The U.N. envoy focusing on sexual violence in conflict said in a new report Monday that there are “reasonable grounds” to believe Hamas committed rape, “sexualized torture,” and other cruel and inhumane treatment of women during its surprise attack in southern Israel on Oct. 7.

The exaggerated and fictional accusations of rape are serious, like the parading through the streets nonsense.

[–] goat@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (191 children)

There is footage of them parading through the streets with the hostages and dead.

Stop denying that Hamas raped innocent civilians. They did, they confessed to it, multiple organisations have verified it, victims have come forth with evidence, and they even filmed themselves.

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[–] archomrade@midwest.social 2 points 1 month ago

As far as I'm aware, the most the UN has been able to say definitively is that there are 'reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred', but that they were unable to establish the prevalence, overall magnitude, scope, or specific attribution. That's a pretty far cry from 'UN-verified sexual assault'

They've been harping on Israel to let them do a full investigation but they've repeatedly stonewalled them.