this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2023
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Maps and documents recovered from the bodies of Hamas attackers reveal a coordinated plan to target children and take hostages inside an Israeli village near Gaza.

Documents exclusively obtained by NBC News show that Hamas created detailed plans to target elementary schools and a youth center in the Israeli kibbutz of Kfar Sa'ad, to "kill as many people as possible," seize hostages and quickly move them into the Gaza Strip.

The attack plans, which are labeled "top secret" in Arabic, appear to be orders for two highly trained Hamas units to surround and infiltrate villages and target places where civilians, including children, gather. Israeli authorities are still determining the death toll in Kfar Sa'ad.

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[–] fruitleatherpostcard@lemm.ee 127 points 1 year ago (59 children)

The world needs to recognise PALESTINIANS as legitimate but not Hamas. Hamas has invaded the open wound which is Gaza, and promotes evil toxicity rather than healing.

[–] circuscritic@lemmy.ca 71 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Active conflicts ALWAYS have ACTIVE INFORMATION OPERATIONS.

Be skeptical. Just like how there is always a teddy bear in the rubble in Gaza, don't take any "smoking gun" evidence at face value, from either side. Period.

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[–] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 38 points 1 year ago

The maps printed out at my county permit center arent as pristine as those maps off dead bodies in a warzone.

[–] _cnt0@feddit.de 37 points 1 year ago (14 children)

This doesn't look like fabricated evidence at all. I am very happy with the fact checking of our media.

[–] EatBorekYouWreck@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago (16 children)

Why does it sound fabricated that an attack that killed 1200 civilians targeted civilians?

For me it makes total sense.

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[–] krolden@lemmy.ml 22 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Just like those decapitated babies they can't find pics of or prove in any way they exist

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[–] HuddaBudda@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It would be hard to say what Israel is lying about in this situation. Overall, it's not like we don't have verifiable evidence Hamas planned a invasion and executed it.

We don't exactly need more proof they were responsible.

But my overall problem has to do with the fact that anyone could have printed these documents and labeled them "Top Secret" and "found" them on enemy combatants. Specifically anyone with an A4 type color printer.

I don't think Israel has a reason to lie about this, but I will state the obvious that this evidence is paper thin in comparison to the live videos of hostages.

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[–] aggelalex@lemmy.world 35 points 1 year ago (5 children)

It's funny how "ToP sECrEt" docs always get released at the most convenient time.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 13 points 1 year ago

I mean that's literally how the union won Gettysburg, it's not that ludicrous

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[–] aniki@lemm.ee 28 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] ruford1976@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)
[–] circuscritic@lemmy.ca 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Smoking gun evidence in an active war zone should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

That doesn't mean they can't be authentic, it just means you shouldn't just assume they are at this point.

And when Hamas claims to have recovered from a dead IDF officer the plans for a tactical nuclear strike, or chemical warfare in Gaza, that should also be taken with a grain of salt.

Assume the majority of OMG LOOK AT THIS EVIDENCE type of information from the ground is being shaped, or fabricated, by information operation teams from one side of this conflict, or the other.

That doesn't mean OMG SMOKING GUN stories can't be genuine, just that you shouldn't automatically assume they are.

[–] aniki@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Documents as evidence? Those couldn't possibly be faked!

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[–] Echo71Niner@lemm.ee 23 points 1 year ago (6 children)

If you really think resistance fighters were carrying around a bunch of stapled word documents labelled ‘TOP SECRET’ like some TV villains then I have 10 bridges to sell you. Insane levels of deception here

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[–] keropoktasen@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago (23 children)

And of course hamas sympathizers are going to rebuff this evidence as 'another lies'.

[–] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I'm impressed by Hamas having a documentation classification system and documentation process. Most terrorist organizations specifically don't write things down because it makes it easier to stop them. So organized!

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[–] zephyreks@lemmy.ca 17 points 1 year ago

Mhmm a top secret attack on a school...

On a Saturday? During Shabbat?

[–] hassanmckusick@lemmy.discothe.quest 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Found it: https://maps.app.goo.gl/HVGPAaCMFHJQsxEg9

Google says it's a research institute but there are photos of kids on horseback?

Why target a lone school when theres like 15 more in a dense area 6 miles to the north east? Maybe too hard to get too?

Edit: might be a middle school? https://sites.google.com/a/sulam.co.il/daat_herum/home

Edit: or a high school of 100

I've marked what I believe is the only school in the immediate area in purple

Edit: There may be a second school, an elementary school, above the purple arrow, in the buildings with the blue "roofs" in the top right.

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[–] spirinolas@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Is the IDF taking lessons from the Russians again?

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[–] TunaCowboy@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

NBC out here doing their best to protect their correspondents.

[–] Spzi@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you want to kill all Jews anyways, why wait until they reach adulthood?

"The Hamas credo is not just anti-Israel, but profoundly anti-Semitic with racism at its core. The Hamas Charter reads like a modern-day Mein Kampf." According to the charter, Jewish people "have only negative traits and are presented as planning to take over the world." The 1988 Charter claimed that the Jews deserved God's/Allah's enmity and wrath because they received the Scriptures but violated its sacred texts, disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew their own prophets.[36] It quotes a saying of Muhammad from a hadith:

The Day of Judgment will not come until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say, 'O Muslim, O servant of God, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.' Only the Gharkad tree would not do that, because it is one of the trees of the Jews.

Multiple commentators, including Jeffrey Goldberg and Philip Gourevitch, have identified this passage as incitement to genocide.[8][9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter#Antisemitism

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