Ask Lemmy

I'm vegan. Generally speaking, whatever we cook for dinner gets left out overnight. I'll chuck the pan in the oven so the cats don't lick it, but unless it's hot/summer then food is usually fine at room temp for 24hrs. Been doing this for 20+ years.

Canadian living in Australia. Omnivore.

Kicker: Food technologist and health inspector. AMA.

Tl;dr: Doesn't matter if it's meat or veg. It goes in the fridge. Follow 2h/4h rule. Edit: Should specify certain veg are potentially hazardous as soon as you cut in to them, like leafy greens. All cooked or partially veg that should be treated like meat.

For work, I'm fairly strict in businesses because the food can go anywhere once it's in the hands on the customer, even in restaurants or at home. You can look at your dine in customers and they all look healthy, but what if they're not, or where do the leftovers go? Do they take it home after date night to share some with little Bobby or Grandma Jane? In business, you do what you can to keep the food as "clean" as you can.

At home and in food businesses, handwashing is ALWAYS a problem. Food handlers are always touching their faces, phones, hip towel they've had on all day, touching a towel they use used to wipe their hands after only rinsing hands in water in the sink, and then touching lettuce for a salad. So even at home, you can cook things to keep bacteria, but is the scoop, container, and your hands clean? Dust, pollen, flies, hairs, etc also carry microbes, and if any of them fall in to food after its been cooked, the bacteria can grow.

It also depends on the type of bacteria, too. Salmonella can infect at an extremely low dose, and Staphylococcus infects at very high doses.

I follow the 2h/4h rule for anything potentially hazardous. Of course, at home, I'm a bit more flexible, usually +/- 1h. If I make myself sick, alright, but there's no way I'm going to make anyone else sick, so if I'm making food for others, I keep to the strict rules. I'm also generally more risk adverse because the thought of anything involuntary coming out either end makes me sick just thinking about it.

I think the amount of time a food stays out is cultural, and if you grew up with it, your gut will have gotten used to the levels of bacteria. Us westerners generally get sick drinking tap water in certain countries when the locals are fine. I used to live with a Japanese lady for a year, and she knew what I did for a living. She always left rice out all night and ate it the next day. One day, she came to me with it and said "does this smell weird?" and it was a definite yes from me. I'd never leave cooked rice out that long and feel comfortable eating it.

So yeah, Bacillus cereus or whatever bacteria present may not occur all the time, but it does happen. Imagine making large batches and serving to large numbers of unrelated people.

Another thing: Cool foods within 2h to a reasonable temperature (I say 40C is fine) before putting it in the the fridge uncovered. If you put hot food in the fridge, you run the risk of warming up the foods already in the fridge.

Wash your hands.

And use a thermometer. Make sure it's clean before you use it.

Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk.

Omnivore.

Bread cools overnight on the counter after cooking then wrapped and stays on the counter.

Butter in a closed container, for however long until it's all used.

Pizza overnight if it doesn't have meat

Cut onion, if I cut some for breakfast I will just turn it cut side down on the cutting board if I'm gonna use the rest soon, like at supper same day.

If beans are left out too long I do the "hard boil for 5 minutes".

I do make fermented beverages and pickles, those ferment at room temp for days to weeks.

I leave food on the counter all the time, because If I'm still hungry in a little while, I don't want my food cold. I have never in my life gotten food poisoning from it.

US. Omnivore.

The food safety recommendations and regulations for commercial Kitchens are there for a reason. That being said, a home setting is very different than a commercial setting.

1. The potential for impact is much greater in a commercial environment due to the volume of food and customers served.

2. Believe it or not, a home setting is more controlled than a commercial setting: There are (generally) fewer food handlers, service personnel and “customers” touching or breathing on the food/dishes/equipment. And whether any of those individuals pose a disease vector risk is fairly well understood within the household, which can be mitigated on a more granular level. Because you are only serving one table instead of many at different stages of readiness, there is smaller variety of foods in preparation at once, fewer steps in the prep process happening simultaneously, and dirty dishes are only handled after the food has been prepared and eaten, reducing the risk of cross contamination. There are so many vectors for contamination in a commercial setting that the controls are in place to stop little issues from turning in big problems.

All this is to say that I am generally okay leaving finished foods out on my counter for extended periods of time if it has been freshly and properly prepared, or I plan on finishing or pitching it that day.

However, your examples baffle me. Leaving pasta out all day just seams like an unpleasant eating experience, indifferent of the health implications. Soup and lasagna? I can’t imagine wanting either of those early enough in the morning to prepare them so that I could leave them out “all day”. If I’m grabbing leftovers from the fridge, I wouldn’t leave it out. It’s already got a container and a space on the shelf; I just put the rest back where it came from after I take my serving. Sitting on the counter isn’t going to improve it.

Vegetables of course live their entire pre-picked lives without refrigeration and are generally fine on the counter when fresh. I would refrigerate prepared fresh vegetables if I knew I wasn’t going to finish them or they were particularly moist, like cut tomatoes or a dressed salad, or known to turn quickly like avacado.

90% Vegetarian. Chicken and Fish meat only. Canada.

I used to be a chef so I follow food safety guidelines with some wiggle room, since commerical kitchen standards are supposed to protect all kinds of people in a wide variety of circumstances, while I'm fairly healthy and in control of my kitchen/storage.

I don't let food that's supposed to be hot sit at room temperature for more than 2hrs max. I keep most starchy fruit and root veggies in loose, hanging bags and berries/greens/less starchy vegetables in the fridge. I usually only buy meat if I'm using it that day, only keep leftovers in the fridge for two-to-three days, and freeze anything else.

Super basic explanation: Bacteria are on anything not sterile or on fire. Most are harmless on their own but some produce shit that makes you sick. Like botulism is caused by the toxin the bacteria produce and not the bacteria itself, and it's found on vegetables. The bacteria die with heat but the toxin remains. And with food production all mingled, bacteria from meats can be transferred to non-meat products, too. You can even get sick from raw flour.

Cooked foods have more available sugars for bacteria to eat, plus warm and moist, so it's a great environment for bacteria to break out of hibernation, make babies and poop toxins.

Leaving cooked starchy foods out in ideal bacteria party conditions isn't great, and food poisoning isn't always throwing up and shitting your guts out. Sometimes it's a slight headache or a sore throat.

But whatever, it's about how much risk you want to take on.

The ignorance in here of how food can go bad is impressive. Refrigerate within one hour. You don’t need to let it cool down before putting it into the refrigerator.

https://www.cdc.gov/food-safety/prevention/index.html

Bacteria can multiply rapidly if left at room temperature or in the "Danger Zone" between 40°F and 140°F. Never leave perishable food out for more than 2 hours (or 1 hour if exposed to temperatures above 90°F).

Refrigerate perishable food (meat, seafood, dairy, cut fruit, some vegetables, and cooked leftovers) within 2 hours. If the food is exposed to temperatures above 90°F, like a hot car or picnic, refrigerate it within 1 hour.

Package warm or hot food into several clean, shallow containers and then refrigerate. It is okay to put small portions of hot food in the refrigerator since they will chill faster.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micromort?wprov=sfla1

I'm unable to find micromort numbers for food-poisoning or food preservation techniques, but my wild guess is that leaving an average vegetarian leftover overnight at an average kitchen temperature on the averagely cleaned kitchen counter, unrefrigerated and even not covered at all, then eating it the next day (maybe reheated) is gonna be negligible amounts of risk compared to many many many other risks people take everyday without blinking their eye about it (such as walking, driving, climbing stairs, swimming, drinking alcohol, using cleaning products, inhaling/eating environmental pollution, not washing hands after toilet, ...)

Anecdotal evidence rules! Everyone posting here is alive!
The estimated 420,000 folks who die annually from improper food and water handling refuse to post!!!
Great stuff!

One big reason for the US guidelines being so strict is that they apply to the entire country, which ranges from Florida to Alaska and everywhere in between, and they are worst case. Plus with a massive population fed by capitalist companies that value money over lives and frequently altered food for profit, deaths in a large population are going to happen.

I don't leave stuff that needs refridgeration out for more than a few hours so that it holds up for several days and the time varies widely by food type. Food does need to cool down significantly before refridgerating, although sometimes I will put it in within a couple hours to avoid forgetting. For most foods I have a four hour limit outside the fridge.

Commercially raised chicken has a very high chance of having salmonella. Raw chicken is only out long enough to prepare and cook. Once cooked I don't worry anymore than anything else.

I also use the dates as rough estimates and when to pay more attention to spoilage. I don't worry about safety for canned foods that don't have signs of spoilage, but a soup can a couple years past the best by date has likely probably separated and textures will be off. Dates on bags of chips are a sign they are will be going stale within a few months.

This is a thing pushed by American media. It's a Boomer-era panic over summertime picnics and somehow mayonnaise causing potato salad to immediately after 30 minutes outside a refrigerator to become fatal if consumed.

It's also the product of misunderstandings of buying meat at a supermarket, wrongly assuming that meat that is not refrigerated for more than 15 minutes will basically kill you.

Panicking about food poisoning is a moral panic about "bad parenting" and blaming people when it wasn't widely known what causes food poisoning: not washing your filthy hands, cross-contaimination, and poor hygiene overall.

I've lived in West Africa and bought and cooked and safely eaten meat that had sat on a wooden plank lightly covered in flies before I got there to buy it. I survived. Mayonnaise will outlive humanity before it molds or goes bad at room temp.

I have a degree in microbiology and I am not sure. I could look it up but im comfotable with my gut. Raw food that needs to be refrigerated we don't leave out for any longer than necessary and use cooler bags and such. Cooked food we won't put in the fridge till its almost room temp

Meat eater from the UK. I'll leave stuff out for varying amounts of time, just smell it before I eat it or have a trial spoon first.

Never had any food poisoning in my life and I have eaten some very questionable things for sure.

In my personal opinion people wildly over exaggerate stuff like this and dates on packaging. My nose knows.