I wonder if this is an US/the rest thing or maybe a meat eater / vegetarian thing. For exact scientific evaluation, please tell in which groups you fit in when commenting.
When the topic food is brought up here or there is always this guy saying "omg you can't leave your food for 30 minutes on the counter because bacteria you know" (exaggerated) and I don't get where that sentiment comes from. Many people agree and say you will get food poisoning from that.
First of all, let me tell you I am not an idiot (at least I hope so) and I know how microbiology works - bacteria is everywhere. I don't doubt your food on the counter will get populated by bacteria, probably more than it would be in the fridge. The question is, is this bad for you?
Now, where I live (central Europe) people are not so fast with that and I wonder why this is. We have a temperate climate which could play a role, so a large portion of the year the temperature is pretty moderate, compared to let's say south US. But apart from that I don't really know.
I am a vegetarian, mostly vegan. I am pretty sure it's not a good idea to leave animal parts out of the fridge, as they are already populated with bad bacteria when you buy them. But for vegetables? Pasta, soup, lasagna? To be honest, I have no shame to leave that stuff on the counter the whole day and even take a spoon from time to time without reheating. Over night I put it of course in the fridge, and in summer when we have 35°C it's also a different thing. But in general I don't really care. I know I cannot extrapolate on humanity, only because ai never felt bad after doing this. But honestly, am I an idiot? Or are you just a bit sensitive? Do you assume everybody eats meats?
Really interested in your ideas. Don't forget to tell the region you are coming from and your diet preferences.
Thank you so much my respected lemmings and pie people
The ignorance in here of how food can go bad is impressive. Refrigerate within one hour. You don’t need to let it cool down before putting it into the refrigerator.
https://www.cdc.gov/food-safety/prevention/index.html
Here's the thing, restaurant level food safety is there to prevent 1 in a million chances of something happening, and usually would only effect those with weak immune systems. It's a huge overabundance of caution born out of a desire to avoid lawsuits, and if you are serving to the public, you should 100% follow it.
But at home? Personally, I think 1 in a million is overly cautious. I'm fine with 1 in 10,000 and trust my immune system to handle it. I am too poor to throw away perfectly good food because I got lazy after dinner and waited 3 hours to put it away instead of 2. I survived all of college off of pizza that was left at room temperature. And yea, you can cite that one case of the guy who got botulism or something after eating a 3-4 day old pizza, but I want you to think about the millions upon millions of pizzas people eat every day without following restaurant-level food safety and realize how crazy it is to base your entire personal food safety philosophy around avoiding extreme edge cases.
Eat day old pizza, thaw your chicken in the sink, store your food in large containers if it makes more sense than small ones. I promise, you will be fine. You are far more at risk driving to the grocery store to get your ingredients than you are from eating food that's been at room temperature for a few hours.
I honestly don't see how some of these people manage to get out of bed in the morning. Did you know falling out of bed imparts more kinetic energy to your body than getting shot with a .45ACP?! Best just stay in bed.
Speaking of, people worry about getting shot in the US. Unless you're in a gang or otherwise run with violent people, your odds of dying to a bullet are minuscule compared to dying in a car wreck. Guess which event is deemed probable.
Our risk/reward calculations have gone fucking nuts over the past couple of decades. I've had people call me an idiot online, and insinuated IRL, because I skinny dip in the local creek. No one has ever articulated the risk(s). I'm simply an idiot for taking the, uh, risk?
I knew this thread would bring out people quoting the over engineered specs for restaurant safety. You probably have the best take in this thread.
That’s not guidance for restaurants. Anecdotal evidence isn’t fact.
Anecdotal evidence is evidence though. And I think the point of the above post is valid, commercial food service should be held to the strictest guidelines to eliminate as much risk as possible. At home, for myself, I'm not going to worry about it beyond basic common sense and trusting my own senses. I also think it is good to be aware of guidelines and generally exercise caution.
All that said, I am always forgetting to put food away and eat it for lunch the next day anyway - have never had a problem in decades (vegetarian).
All Q-tip packages say to not put them in your ears because they can cause damage. Hundreds of millions of people around the world use them to clean their ears. But apparently all these millions of people are suffering from hearing damage because "anEcDoTaL EviDEnCe iSN't FacT".
IDGAF. My wife leaves dinner wrapped up on the table or on the stove overnight all the time. Only thing I put away immediately is seafood.
According to all that, we should be dead, several dozen times a year. Do explain. Perhaps our ignorance is lining our stomachs?
My siblings and I are the same way. We've all got iron stomachs. When we share leftovers with friends, they get upset stomachs, but we're never careful with food being left out too long, and we never have bowel issues with it.
Probably have some sort of ungodly tolerance built up for it, parents were poor while raising us and we ate whatever was available.
At this point you should do your own research, nothing I say will change your mind.
It really depends on how hot it is, how much there is, and how big the fridge is. Basically just try not to put so much energy in the fridge that other things start to heat up as well; then everything in your fridge is in the 'danger zone', or at least uncomfortably close to it. Also saves energy.
Personally I always leave things out to cool off and only put it away quicker if there's meat in it.
You can use a temp probe into food to prove that waiting isn’t needed.
Naw, they're right. Cooling food before cold storage is a food safety standard where I live.
I'm a former chef. We tracked our cold storage temps twice a day and had digital displays on some, they absolutely heat up when a lot of energy is introduced relative to the temperature/volume/efficiency of the unit. We cooled everything before putting away, but we had methods and tools for cooling things down quickly if it was going to take more than 30min—1hr.
This is because hot food not only heats up the whole fridge/freezer, it can warm/thaw food next to it, and it raises the humidity in the fridge. While temperatures may not reach the danger zone, more warmth=bacteria replicate faster. Mold still grows in a fridge, so if it's even a little bit more warm and moist, food's going to go bad a little faster.
Thanks for your US input, really appreciate it. But think about it, most of the people that already commented live outside the US. It seems your guidelines are pretty heavy, also another US american commented the guidelines are so strict because they need to apply to the whole vast country.
Are we all really ignorant, or is it possible there is also a cultural difference in play?
Bacteria doesn’t care about culture. The guidelines are pretty simple: bacteria generally grows on food within a temp range.
It’s not like parts of US has more food-affecting bacteria than others.
Other nonsense in this thread: “if it smells ok it’s ok to eat” some bacteria can’t be detected by scent.
Rice, a common food outside of the US, has a particularly bad bacteria that can survive being cooked and should not be left out or even reheated more than once for example.
Well, bacteria actually care a lot about culture if you allow for this pun.
Like I said, the other commenters from the US say the US guidelines are extra strict so infection will be nearly impossible. This post is a pretty small sample, but from what I gather there is indeed a cultural difference. Not in the biology itself, but in what guidelines exist and how they are interpreted. We are of course talking about a private setting at home in this thread, not about restaurants or industrial kitchens.
Honestly, I feel your tone is a bit rude. Make your points, share tour thoughts, argue. But don't act like everybody commenting here is stupid.
Find any sources from your country then?
My Filipino wife leaves rice in the cooker overnight almost every day, reheats it the next. Please explain to her that she died several decades ago from this practice.
Anecdotal. Do your own research if you need too.
https://www.cnet.com/home/kitchen-and-household/leftover-rice-is-a-sneaky-cause-of-food-poisoning-heres-how-to-enjoy-it-safely/
Yes, anecdotal, but several decades of this practice, not only with her but among nearly everyone else in her culture does say something.
I'll go tell her she's dead.
(When I read her stuff like this off lemmy: "Who are these people? What is wrong with them?" She thinks I know you like it's FaceBook.)
No one's saying she's dead. Rice is just a high risk food to leave at room temperature. It's possible she could continue doing this her whole life and never get sick, but it doesn't change the general risk level.
I won't tell you what to do, but here's an article on it by researchers in Malaysia: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0882401023004515
if they ever had a 24hr "flu" or something similar it was likely food poisoning.
You're free to treat food safety the same way anti-vaxxers treat vaccines.
The WHO's manual on food safety here.
I've been out of the loop on this for a while, however— yes, food safety practices differ culturally, but actual regulations are fairly similar. The WTO has recommendations upon which standards for imported food are created, resulting in a lot of uniformity in international food safety guidelines. But! There can be equitablility and equivalence allowances for different practices that achieve the same result. FDA conducts inspections on foreign food manufacturing that allow for these differences.
More countries have implemented HACCP in food industries based on WHO guidelines.
Local differences can still result in products considered safe in one region and not suitable for commercial sale in another. For instance in Canada all commercial eggs have to be refrigerated, in part, because we wash our eggs, which removes the protective cuticle so they're more prone to becoming contaminated. In other countries it's against regulation to wash commercial eggs and they can be stored at room temperature. But! It's a food safety risk to leave a refrigerated egg at room temperature for too long because condensation forms on the shell, creating a favorable environment for bacteria.
Some countries don't allow certain preservatives, additives or chemicals. Borax and lye are used in traditional recipes and legal in some countries, while being against regulations in others.
However, heavy regulations aren't just based on risk to the weakest consumer, but on variance in circumstance. Not everyone who handles food is a perfect professional, equipment breaks down, cold trucks can overheat, and plenty of other shit can go wrong in the supply chain. Your food might already be heavily contaminated by the time it reaches you and that can't always be seen or smelled.
Adhering as well as you can to your local food prep guidelines can be overkill 99/100 times, but that 1/100 can prevent slight discomfort/illness/death. It's about how much risk you want to take on.