Ask Lemmy

There are, broadly speaking, two kinds of people invested in politics. The first has money and power, and uses it to get more money and more power. The other has no money and no power, and somehow believes the first type when the first type says 'give me your money and power, and then you will have more money and power.'

Judging by how they want Jim Crow-era laws back, we can assume they want the 1870 ~ 1959 period back.

But honestly, they are fascists. They want do what the Nazis did except more Amercianized. Sure we won't have dedicated labor camps or extermination camps in our country. But, we'll happily blitz through laws to be passed that'll make it harder and harder for LGBTQ people to have rights. Don't like middle-class? No problem! We'll just orchestrate a system with our trusty friend, Capitalism, that'll make it harder for things to be affordable for them.

Laws? What laws? lol, only for those who can't afford to break them. Rules and Accountability? Lol, what's that? That's only for those people who're tied to this silly concept called morals and karma.

That's America for you.

Yes but also, the 1950s here were a time of social backlash. In the 1940s women were wearing bold red lipstick (because Hitler vocally didn't like it) and engaging heavily in the economy even in male dominated fields because so many men were in the military that we couldn't keep the country going otherwise. Meanwhile the men were fighting side by side in desegregated units.

So war ends, and a decent portion of the returning soldiers think things are going to return to normal. But the women got a taste of the freedom of economic independence and black men got a taste of being treated less awfully. The white men feel emasculated. But the benefits of the new deal are here and so a single man can support a family and even move to the all white suburbs on his income thanks to his union job, veteran benefits, and government assistance meant to prevent another period of mass poverty. And this is ignoring the whole deal of how LGBT issues were impacted by the war and its end. Also the second red scare and lavender scare (McCarthyism) happened in the late 40s-early 50s.

And so yeah while you have some counterculture movements in the 50s like beatnicks, biker and leather clubs, the mattachine society, and greasers as well as fighting for black civil rights, the 50s were largely defined by the reactionary forces as the discontent built. The 60s didn't spring up out of nowhere.

They're fascists. Literally.

They want to oppress in order to gain total control. Because that's what fascists do.

So no, the 50s don't really fit the bill for what they're being clear they want. In the 50s the middle class was strong because we taxed the everloving fuck out of the wealthy. That's not what they're going for here.

They want something closer to what Pinochet or Franco had going on

It is silly. You do not go back to the America of the 50's without the rest of the world being in the 50's.

See Europe and most of the world other than America destroying itself in the second world war, and the Bretton Woods agreement.

Boomers were able to buy a house on one income because they took a load of the world's income because of how America exploited the world post WW2.

This does not happen now.

Very much the opposite. The US in the 1950s was a product of two things: 1) 20 consecutive years of Democratic presidents (Roosevelt from 1932 to 1945, then Truman til 1952), and 2) WW2, which put the whole country to work on war production, including large numbers of women who previously hadn't been part of the workforce. Eisenhower (Republican) was president from 1952 to 1960 but other than revving up the cold war, he didn't change stuff so much, it seems to me, though it was before my time.

Roosevelt in turn was sort of an antimatter version of Donald Trump (he clobbered the 1% for the benefit of the 99% instead of the other way around). He'd be considered extreme left by today's standards. He was re-elected 3 times before dying in office on his way to his 5th, 6th, 7th etc terms. Republicans HATED him. After his death they passed a Constitutional amendment limiting presidents to 2 terms (Dems were ok with the amendment because they feared a similarly popular Republican staying in office forever, as might have happened with Ronald Reagan, and now Trump wants a 3rd term).

Ever since the Eisenhower era but accelerating enormously under Reagan, Republicans have been trying to reverse Roosevelt policies that persisted through the rest of the 20th century and are partly still around despite those efforts.

So I would say they goai is more like the pre-Roosevelt era, like the 1920s. The Great Depression started in 1928 and resulted in near-revolution and Roosevelt getting elected by an overwhelming margin in 1932. But before the depression was the so-called Gilded Age where super rich people could do pretty much whatever they wanted, and that if anything is the current Republican dream.

Roosevelt went by his initials FDR, which was kind of an unusual thing but whatever, people went along with it even if they thought it was a little bit weird. Truman was Roosevelt's last VP so he became president through FDR's death rather than campaigning for it directly (he was re-elected in 1948). The next two Dem presidents, Kennedy and Johnson, used their initials (JFK and LBJ) the way FDR did, not because it was anything like a normal thing to do, but because they wanted to remind people of FDR, who was still very popular despite being long dead. There is a good book about post-WW2 US political history called "In The Shadow of FDR" by Walter Leuchtenberg that explains this. I see it's now been expanded to go through 2010 (Obama) but I had to read it in history class some time before that. Anyway it's good.

There was once a joke about a family at its breakfast table in the 1930s. Dad asks the 6yo kid what he wants to be when he grows up. The kid answers "I want to be president of the US!". The dad angrily responds "Why? What's wrong with Roosevelt?".

Anyway, returning to an era shaped by Roosevelt is the absolute last thing the GOP wants or ever wanted.

Edit: oops, the Gilded Age was "officially" 1870s-1890s, so some nuances should change in the above, but you get the idea.

No. They absolutely do not want to go back to the 50s. If anything they're trying to go back to the Gilded Age. They don't want any part of the 50s.

They're the Technocracy movement, started in the 1930s and stewing as a behind the scenes backer of conservative movements, such as the heritage foundation

Wikipedia link. If you read through that, you'll find a lot of the seemingly random shit they say, like taking the Panama canal, Greenland, and Canada, it's all related. This is the end goal

They want to bring 'back' the NAZI America that never was because Americans back then fought back against Fascism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uftTLH6NRks

1850s, maybe.

I don't think the America of the 50s is what they think it is.

The ideal though is being able to afford a house, a car and a family all on one wage.

More like 1850s laws where they could own people they deemed lesser, with a 1950s Leave it to Beaver Coat of paint slapped on top... Where women couldn't get divorced without specific cause or have their own bank accounts, and everyone was pretending to be Christian due to the red scare

Read the Project 2025 (it's a 900+page brick and expensive, but the PDF is freely downloadable), you will get a better understanding what they may want to achieve.

Saying that as an EU citizen, if this matters.

Other people have more detailed and factual answers, but a good heuristic is "there must be outgroups for the law to bind but not protect, and in groups for the law to protect but not bind". That's what they want. They want to do what they want while women and queers and non-whites are subjugated. They want to say something inappropriate and touch their women coworkers without consent, and know if she raises her voice she'll be fired.

They are scum.

They don't care what happens to America as long as they can keep their power and wealth. A financial crisis is only bad for the poor people. For the rich it's black friday. But how do you keep the poor under control while they can bare afford to survive? Welp you find a punching bag! So easy, something isn't going well? But hey that queer person over there exists. Ohhh you can't afford food? Look at that "immigrant" existing over there! Some tragedy happened over there? How awefull, but look at that person of colour over there standing so menacingly. As long as they can redirect the ill feelings of the loud ones they are fine.

The want the racist, sexist social aspects of the 50s, but not the economic ones. LBJ's New Deal allowed a thriving middle class to actually exist at the expense of wealthy people having as much money in their hoard. Can't have that!

Try 1830s

1850's? Yes.

I think they latch onto the 50s because if you say 60s, you're thinking hippies and drugs. 70s? Having to admit how badly we'd fucked up in Vietnam and drugs. 80s? Drugs and drugs. Anything later than that is too young for conservatives unless they're trying to rape it.

Any of them who are old enough to really remember the 50s are too old to remember the 50s. Geriatric mush-brain and everything. It's just a way to say "back before black people, gays, and women had rights" while preserving the option to backpedal if they took the mask off (or, more fittingly, put the hood on) too early. Also probably would use terms other than black people, gays, and women if speaking freely.

The voters were probably thinking about the nostalgia they had as a result of the progressive eras, because they'd get all the benefits, while also not having do deal with racism since they're white.

Too many Americans are just fundamentally hateful, stupid people and those in power use this fact to further establish themselves. They're already extremely selfish and amoral so, while I don't doubt they're also xenophobic, misogynistic and shortsighted, why would they care if they say X, Y and Z as long as it allows them to keep the grift going? Those who are drinking the Kool Aid are probably fewer in number than those who just think "fuck it, I'm getting the bag" (it all goes back to basic moral relativism, greed and hedonism, as always).

Republicans are trying to take us back to the 1850s, not the 1950s.

And Republicans want that because they want slavery back

I think they want to remove Atheism and all associated things with it from society. Trump calls himself christian, and his followers (voter base) are evangelical Christians.

Evangelical Christians ...

• believe once Israel builds a temple the judgement day comes
• all people who do not believe in Jesus is the personified God (or something like that) will go to eternal hell
• believe in free market capitalism and hate all kinds of communism and state control in economy (even science)

And these evangelical gospels align well with Trump.

I gave up on trying to understand because its all just racist, sexist, xenophobic bullshit with no substance of thought behind it. It's all the loudest, dumbest people taking control of the government while ultra-wealthy, straight-up evil oligarchs try to steer the idiots to their benefit. I stopped trying to convince MAGA-folks of anything because they are incapable of listening and thinking for themselves, and instead I'm working on my pistol aim and developing a mutual aide community.

No utopias there, just rednecks doing whatever they want with no consequences. Or, that's what they think as the consequences build up until they're all dead.

This isn't rebirth, it's fire. They're setting the place on fire, because they want to see people burn as they die. They think it's funny. Their fictional god told them it's OK!

This administration, and IIRC also within the text of Project 2025, wants to "undo the 20th century." Primarily that's everything that's happened since WWII, but once they get into it, they like the 1880s better because it's when Robber-barons could do anything they wanted, corruption was unchecked, and women couldn't vote.

The anchoring to the 1950's-1960's are because there's a lot of Boomers who remember that time period as (to them) the height of civilization, because most people generally assume that any time period where they were 16-25 is the best anything ever was.

They're going back to the Germany of the 1930's.

Edit: Except with Epstein files.

The 1350's specifically.

They used to like back in the eighties and nineties but it keeps getting pushed back further. They are targeting the late 1800's I think about now.

I don't think that's the goal. I think a return to "better" times is little more than marketing. They use it to strengthen support and give blame. The goal is money and control.

Do you have any examples of what you mean?