this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2024
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Summary

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy asserted that no world leader has the right to negotiate with Russian President Vladimir Putin on behalf of Ukraine.

Speaking to Le Parisien readers, Zelenskyy emphasized that Ukraine alone determines its future and any dialogue with Russia must follow a peace plan based on strength and international support.

He warned against negotiating without clear guarantees of security, highlighting the risks of Putin resuming aggression after a ceasefire.

Zelenskyy called for a strategy ensuring Ukraine's long-term stability and security, beyond NATO or EU membership timelines.

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[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 1 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

On one hand, I get it; it's their business and they should be at any negotiating tables that involve them. On the other, if, say, Germany made a deal with Putin to leave Ukraine alone that didn't promise something of Ukraine's to Russia, would that be bad? It's one thing to negotiate with shit that doesn't belong to you, like promising Russia can keep Donsk or some shit, but if they just sold them something of theirs to get them to fuck off, that would be helpful would it not?

[–] horse_battery_staple@lemmy.world 365 points 4 days ago (5 children)

It's fucking ridiculous he has to say it out loud

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 90 points 4 days ago (8 children)

Tbh a lot of people in the states are under the impression that we CAN do precisely that, because we absolutely have done in the past. But this is also kind of a whole different ballgame, in a ton of pretty crucial ways.

[–] P1nkman@lemmy.world 51 points 4 days ago (1 children)

No world leader = hey, you orange turd, you do NOT speak on our behalf.

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[–] tired_n_bored@lemmy.world 115 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (64 children)

I am so sad by how Ukraine has been handled.

The West should have been an overwhelming power against Russian imperialism. Ukraine should have been given everything from the beginning, no strings attached, with no self-imposed red lines.

They will swallow another democracy in 10-20 years and the cycle repeats.

[–] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 27 points 3 days ago

And that would likely have ended the war sooner, causing less people to die, and making Putin less likely to try something like it in the future.

[–] 13esq@lemmy.world 23 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Tactically, the plan is to make Russia bleed to death rather than temporarily paralyse it.

Maximizing the loss of russian life and draining the russian economy to the point that the population won't tolerate any further war is the goal. It's unfortunate that this is at the cost of ongoing war in Ukraine.

[–] GuitarSon2024@lemmy.world 11 points 3 days ago (6 children)

This is a solid take, but the other side of the issue is the question of how long will it take the brainwashed Russian population to realize the economy has passed a point of no return? Outside of major cities much of Russia lives in 3rd world poverty. Will they even notice if the ruble falls to zero?

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[–] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 3 points 2 days ago

Yep. It was a sad excuse not to intervene in 2014, but now? Pathetic.

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[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 97 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

This is arguably the whole point of the war.

[–] azertyfun@sh.itjust.works 30 points 4 days ago (3 children)

For Ukraine yes, but as far as Ukraine's allies go? Only in principle. In reality we help Ukraine because it fucks up Russia, but we don't give Ukraine the support it really needs or asks for because of [insert litany of excuses for years of delay on new weapons systems].

Proxy wars are nasty business, and Ukraine has precious little say in any of the macro decisions. Russia and Russia's ennemies collectively hold all the negociation leverage.
Zelenskyy's only hope is that domestic pressure will force the West to make a genuine effort at preserving as much of Ukraine's sovereignty as possible, hence this media intervention.

And he's right to be worried, because the situation in Palestine shows, again, that most Western governments only stick to their stated principles when it's politically convenient and shrug at literal genocide when it's not. And the Russian propaganda machine is going to work overtime to make us think that any Russian concession to Ukraine would be against European interests.

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[–] DandomRude@lemmy.world 89 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (4 children)

Unfortunately, Trump will do exactly that regardless.

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 56 points 4 days ago (12 children)

Probably already has.

Given the Russian pushes since Trump won the election, I'm guessing the deal is "stop fighting (for a bit), but any land you're currently on is yours to keep".

This obviously will not apply to the bits of Russia currently under Ukrainian control.

Europe needs to up it's munitions manufacture. Can't rely on the US for that shit any more. They've gone mad.

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[–] DicJacobus@lemmy.world 40 points 4 days ago (13 children)

America can tell Russia Ukraine formally surrenders, and that the moon is made of cheese, it isnt going to stop anyone from fighting to protect themselves.

The fact that even western countries seem to think that there can be negotiations about the fate of Ukraine and its people, without the Ukrainian voice present, is laughable and directley supports Putin and the Russian Mafia's fantasy-narrative.

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[–] Th4tGuyII@fedia.io 72 points 4 days ago (36 children)

You'd think this would be a fairly cut and dry issue - the countries helping Ukraine wouldn't like it either if another country started negotiating terms on their behalf (especially not with a monster like Putin).

Ukraine and its people should be the ones to decide their own fate.

I swear people who think otherwise must've read David vs. Goliath and sided with the Goliath.

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[–] Luvs2Spuj@lemmy.world 11 points 3 days ago

The comments are peak internet dumpster fire 🍿

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