this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2024

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193

People outside the US, how do you feel US expats or exiles would do in your country or region? (lemmy.world)

submitted 1 week ago by multicolorKnight@lemmy.world to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world

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NGL, not asking for a friend. Given the current trends in US politics, it seems prudent to at least look into it.

Most of the online content on the topic seems to be by immigration attorneys hustling ultra rich people. I'm not ultra rich. I have a job in tech, could work remotely, also have enough assets to not desperately need money if the cost of living were low enough.

I am a native English speaker, fluent enough in Spanish to survive in a Spanish speaking country. I am old, male, cis, hetero, basically asexual at this point. I am outgoing, comfortable among strangers.

What's good and bad about where you live? Would it be OK for a outsider, newcomer?

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[–] EnderMB@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I'm in the UK, and I work with a LOT of Americans already, so know this first hand:

You fuckers are always in for a culture shock when you realise that everywhere isn't like London. You seem to either expect London or Harry Potter Land, but when you end up somewhere like Bristol, Leeds, or Birmingham the frame of reference just dies and you see the wheels turning in your head trying to make sense of it all.
Weirdly, you seem to really like our supermarkets. They're a lot smaller than yours, meal deals are a novelty that never gets old, and paying the price on the tag is the greatest thing ever.
You love our bread, and our chocolate is like crack to you. You'd think that you'd moved to France or something...
Butter on bread will fuck you up. You use Mayo all the time, but we use butter/spread, and it messes with your minds.
You quickly learn that Europe is a continent, and that cultures across the continent are very different to one another. You also learn that no one knows US history that well, or that we had a war with you (since we have basically had a war with everyone at some point).
The drinking culture is a really interesting one. Some love it, some hate it. It's a staple of British life
We get paid a lot less than you do, but your money will go much further because you're not spending it on healthcare. You'll also get taxed a lot, but ultimately you'll earn enough to be comfortable, and a comfortable life in the UK is nice.

To answer your question, you're more than welcome here, and it's much easier to get a visa to the UK for you than for us to go to the US. Expect some people to give you shit for Trump, but give them shit back for Brexit and electing the Tories for 15 years.

[–] multicolorKnight@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Now we're talking. I have been to the UK quite a bit, and work with plenty of Brits here, so:
Americans are not generally in the habit of addressing people as "you fuckers" until we know you better. :)
UK supermarkets are more like US conveniences stores with more food and no fuel pumps in front. They are OK.
Agreed, the existence of anything besides London, Liverpool, and maybe Manchester is totally a blank to us. Went to Birmingham, had no ckue.
Butter on bread is the only way, don't know where you got that from.
No reason you guys should care about US history. English history is much more interesting.
Engkish pubs are good. Beer, I think, has gotten better in the US recently.
After Brexit, the UK has permanently renounced the right to criticize anyone's politics. Still, recent developments there give me hope that it's possible to come out the other end of this.
Thank you.

[–] thawed_caveman@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I'm in France and my cousin married an American.

Cost of living is high and the language is bullshit, but the standards of living are some of the best in the world. Very old established democracy and rule of law, workers rights, social security, and whatever the complete opposite of political apathy is. Culture is rich with a disproportionate level of global relevance for the country's size. The location is ideal in the middle of europe, with a good variety of landscapes and climate.

Internet is cheap and fast, but i don't know anything about the state of tech jobs.

I don't know much about the tax system either but my assumption is you might save money just on the healthcare alone.

Overall i wouldn't recommend, you'd be better off in a country with a language closer to english, such as most countries north of France. They'll have better english proficiency and you'll learn the language easier.

[–] multicolorKnight@lemmy.world 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

France always comes up on lists of good places to live, and there are Francophiles here as everywhere. I admire the place, but I chose Spanish instead of French when it was time to start studying another language, so that die was cast a long time ago.

[–] thawed_caveman@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Yeah i don't think it's worth learning french for almost any reason, lots more people speak spanish

[–] JohnnyEnzyme@lemm.ee 2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

the language is bullshit
i don’t think it’s worth learning french for almost any reason

Personally I'm learning French because it's the language of bande dessinée, and in order to enjoy more BD, plus run my sublemmy more effectively, it's an obvious choice.

Anyway I find French much harder than Spanish, but am slowly getting the hang of it... I think. Gender is complete BS to me, and it seems like there are tonnes of little grammar rules to follow. Is that why you called it bullshit, yourself?

[–] thawed_caveman@lemmy.world 2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Yeah, so by all accounts i'm the kind of person most likely to love the french language: native speaker, effortless spelling and grammar, avid reader of BD, i even like the flowery and decorative aspects of the language (language soutenu); but then i also speak other languages, and this gives me the perspective that, from a practical standpoint, there's a lot of issues with french. There's layers of sediment accumulated over centuries, a lot of rules and spellings are vestigial and serve no purpose anymore other than make it harder.

Also, a lot of rules and spellings come from grammarians just saying so, and writing prescriptivist style guides to make people spell The Correct Way. To a point, i even think the ability to invent and follow an arbitrary The Correct Way hass been a class signal.

Even native french speakers sometimes have bad grammar, or at least that's much more common than english speakers having bad grammar.

English speakers say the same things about their language, but they don't know about ô <--- this accent and the agony of trying to guess when it should be used or not. It's supposed to indicate a difference in pronunciation, but this difference depends on the accent and is also obvious from context. I've known teachers to dock points for shit like this, and it radicalized me against arbitrary rules despite being completely capable of following them. In my opinion, people use features that have a purpose; if people don't use it, then it's pointless.

And from a global perspective, fewer people speak french than a lot of other languages. On the one hand this doesn't matter, lots of people speak mandarin, it's about who you're likely to interact with; but i'd say your more likely to interact with spanish speakers.

Unless of course you're that much into BD. That doesn't surprise me at all, lots of english speakers learned japanese for weeb reasons, i think it's completely legit to learn a language for the culture. Actually i find it pretty impressive

[–] multicolorKnight@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Hate to sound ignorant here, what's BD?

There are more French than English speakers with bad grammar? I find that difficult to believe.

[–] thawed_caveman@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

BD = Bande Dessinée, the french term for both graphic novels and comics. Both have a huge history in Europe in general and France-Belgium in particular, but it's extremely unusual for english speakrs to know or care, it's really appreciated.

I guess i shouldn't speak so definitively, it's not like i have data to back up the fact that there are more French than English speakers with bad grammar; but really, french grammar is worse than complex, it's unintuitive and arbitrary, and it does feel like i see more french speakers with bad grammar. For what that's worth

[–] Etterra@lemmy.world 9 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Too bad some of the people who need the protection the most (disabled Americans) are unwelcome. Sucks to be us I guess.

[–] JohnnyEnzyme@lemm.ee 1 points 5 days ago

Unwelcome where, exactly?

[–] hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com 125 points 1 week ago (12 children)

First of all, stop using word "expat" when you're talking of immigrants but from "better countries"

[–] CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 52 points 1 week ago (7 children)

Ive usually seen "Expat" defined as someone working in another country, but explicitly with the intent to be there temporarily and leave once their time at that job ends, rather than moving there with an intent to stay and join that society. Which, granted, doesnt seem to be what OP is actually talking about in this case.

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[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 82 points 1 week ago (12 children)

Depends how they behave. If they behave like "Expats", who don't care about integrating into our society, don't care about learning the local language even after years, they are not welcome.

If they integrate seamless (and this does not imply giving up their identity, just to make sure), and become a good member of this society, be welcome.

[–] futatorius@lemm.ee 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

That seems to be a hard thing for many Americans and Brits to do. I have a couple American friends living in Europe who've learned the language and immersed themselves in the culture, but they're exceptional. One even learned both the national and regional language. Not too many Americans who can converse in Catalan.

[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago

It may be hard, but if you want to live in a foreign country, it is the minimum requirement I would expect. Forcing your host to permanently bend over backwards just to cater for your lack of effort is most impolite.

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[–] skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de 73 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (11 children)

Welcome to EU! Prepare for a cultural shift:

Considering that everyone on lemmy is 30+ communist tech worker, it's probably a welcome change

Speaking more specifically about Poland, depending on how you measure, we might have the most rapidly secularizing society in the world Some Americans (catholic fundamentalists) seem to think that you can just barge in, snatch a tradwife and plot of land and live like it's 50s, but these people are straight up delusional. Introducing ban on abortion, for example, erased full quarter of support for the party that did it (40% ish to 30% ish overnight) and caused largest protests since dissolution of Soviet Union. There are conservative women, but these tend to be 60+

In tech job market specifically, the bubble has ended (like everywhere else i guess), but if you're a senior or able to keep your current job you'll be fine (not sure how you'd get residence permit then). You'd need to lean Polish as a practical matter, because while lots of people do speak decent English, many don't (esp. 50+ and in small towns) and many official matters can be done in Polish only. Like everywhere else, there's division between more conservative rural areas and more liberal large cities; no one wants to live in the former, even locals, and so most of foreigners live in Warsaw (or Kraków, or Wrocław). It sounds like you'd blend in right away in one of these places. While property prices and rent went up since start of the plague, it's not as crushingly bad as in, say, Berlin or Rotterdam. Random benefits include ability to pirate absolutely everything without VPN with no consequences and ability to use complaint as a conversation starter

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