So is that a yes or a no? If we were to assume that no aesthetics exist other than solarpunk and socialist realism your argument would be sound, but as it is now you defined pretty much everything that isn't socialist realism as fascism.

[–] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 4 days ago (2 children)

We're not talking about art of the sake of art here. We're talking about a political ideology and the art associated with promoting its values. The issue I have is that solar-punk sells a vision of a comfortable society while ignoring the labour that underpins it. In my view, the recognition of the central role of labour in society has to be part of any genuinely socialist aesthetic.

[–] infuziSporg@hexbear.net 9 points 4 days ago (1 children)

quoting for posterity

We're not talking about art of the sake of art here. We're talking about a political ideology and the art associated with promoting its values. The issue I have is that solar-punk sells a vision of a comfortable society while ignoring the labour that underpins it. In my view, the recognition of the central role of labour in society has to be part of any genuinely socialist aesthetic.

The problem is that solar-punk is entirely compatible with social fascism. It sells a vision of a comfortable society that sweeps labour that underpins its functioning under the rug. This is largely how the west functions already. We outsource labour to the global south where it's brutally exploited, but then peddle the whole Nodric "socialism" where the exploiters live in comfort.

The recognition of the role of labour in society has to be part of any genuinely socialist aesthetic.

Wow, all the images of Shibam have no people in them. Yemen is cancelled for being fascist.

Maybe if we inserted some Western consumerism and planned obsolescence, they could be perpetually engaged in construction work like we are in the West.

All you have to do to not be fascist is build things that are not made to last, so you always have a need for more glorious labor that replaces what has already been built. Easy.

20-hour work week? 10-hour work week? But then where are all the workers going to be appearing? This economic projection of a reduction of socially necessary labor input, to maintain an objectively decent quality of life for a stable number of people, is fascist.

And FALGSC must be the most fascist thing there is. Everybody has the cool cosmonaut avatars and the banner images of people flying through space alongside rockets, but no one has a banner image of people working in the factories to make the space suits and the rockets, or mining the metals for them.

'oh but he has a hammer and sickle symbol in his fist'

If I slap some ivy on a brick wall in a hammer and sickle shape, would that make you happy? But I still wouldn't call that solarpunk to much of a coherent extent, though. Certainly, the aesthetic does blend with others, but solarpunk distinguishes itself coherently from cyberpunk and futurism to the degree that it incorporates human-scale, appropriate technology, and living systems. Putting a couple trees on the outside of the Burj Dubai is a strawman.

The only way it's not fascist is if *checks notes* you constantly have a massive number of labor hours being invested into something.

[–] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Bravo, you really put a lot of effort into that straw man.

[–] infuziSporg@hexbear.net 9 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Speak for yourself, with this entire post.

No investigation into key tenets or even correlates, just vibes and Twitter bait.

[–] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 4 days ago

Sure yeah that's it.

[–] Barabas@hexbear.net 10 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

You are the one coming out with a topic stating that the art doesn't show the workers building it and is therefore fascist by default. Virtually no art other than socialist realism features the builder, and even most soviet architectural art doesn't feature any people to any significant extent. It is the same kind of tea leaf reading that you get when westerners call Stalinist or Chinese architecture totalitarian and evil by imagining the people who were enslaved to build it.

I wonder since the majority of the real world muscle behind the actual movement with forest cities and expanded solar power automation is currently in China. Like, another topic you just posted completely fits with the whole aestetic, but I assume it wasn't meant to be seen as terrible news.

[–] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I think I was pretty clear in what I said above. Feel free to actually address that.

[–] Barabas@hexbear.net 6 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I did. You have blankly refused to answer any of my questions though, and instead decided to change the subject to the ideology that some proponents have so further interaction seems pointless.

[–] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 4 days ago

I love how you're upset that you didn't get the answer you were very obviously fishing for. Given that you don't care for what I actually have to say, you're right that further interaction is pointless.