Lugh

joined 2 years ago
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What is more important on the path to AGI - scaling and more training data, or fundamental breakthroughs in AI software developed by humans?

Many people believe it is the former, though Deepseek itself arose from the latter.

If training data is to be significant then Tencent may have given itself a huge boost. WeChat is the biggest and most used app on the planet. The Google suite of products is the only thing comparable in western countries. However, Western countries are starting to split into AI walled gardens, so Google won't be able to take full advantage of all its users.

It may not matter. Some people believe scaling alone won't be enough to get to AGI. Some smart humans somewhere will need to figure out breakthroughs in AI software - and that could happen anywhere.

 

Although tariffs might slow things down, the ultimate destiny of the world's robotaxis is probably to be cheap, electric and made in China. This week, BYD the maker of the $9,500 Seagull hatchback said it will make Level 2 self-driving standard on all its cars, including it.

When cars this cheap are self-driving and taxis, it will mean there is little point for many people to own a car. Why, if the few hundred kms/miles you drive a month costs a fraction of car ownership?

Ryan Johnson, the developer of Culdesac, thinks this trend is already helping it, and will ripple out to change the way more and more people live in cities.

Current state of Waymo in Phoenix

  • Now regularly seeing my social circle, male and female, looking to it first

  • Parents now comfortable sending their kids to school and elsewhere. This is a major vibe shift. Early on, women solo riders were the loudest champions. But parents are overtaking that. Effusive praise e.g. “I have my freedom back!”

  • Biggest impediment to growth is that they go slower. Which of course is because they don’t speed and don’t run red lights

  • Perception that Waymo makes other drivers drive safer

  • Now regularly seeing Waymo convoys

  • First anecdote effect dissipating. When someone sees their first minor error from Waymo, it is jarring. But then a long time elapses until they see their second. And that builds intuition that it is rare, and points the finger at how much more common errors are from human drivers

  • People are asking when they can order Waymo via either Lyft or Uber

  • People seeing how fast the AI tools are improving is bringing the “Waymo right now is the worst it will ever be” conclusion

Phoenix is Waymo’s most mature market, now 8 years into public availability. It’s a big reason why we chose Phoenix (Tempe) for the first Culdesac.

The May 2023 launch of the Jaguar platform was a seminal moment in the history of AV Ridehail going mainstream. And AV Ridehail is going to drive the largest change to cities in decades.

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submitted 7 months ago by Lugh to c/futurology
 

For some time people have spoken of the concept of sovereign AI. Sovereign AI refers to a government's or organization's control over AI technologies and associated data. At the start of 2025 such an idea isn't just talk any more. It's rapidly happening.

It's most obvious in Europe. Just as the US gears up to become more autocratic, the EU has passed laws to ban the AI that enables it. This week the bloc banned AI it deems 'unacceptable risk'. Among other things, it bans AI that manipulates and deceives, targets minorities, allows biometric profiling, or predictive policing. Almost everything on the list is something American Big Tech is doing with the encouragement of the current administration. To make the point clearer, the EU is building its own AI for European governments, institutions and civil service to use.

China is building AI the equal of any, and in the case of DeepSeek, perhaps the best there is. Not only that, they are Open-Sourcing it. There's no reason to think they will slow down. In fact, China may accelerate in AI; they have a huge trove of public data to use for training that the Chinese government has recently decided to make available for the first time. China is many countries in South America and Africa's main trade and technology partner. Where that is the case they may be its main AI source too.

American Big Tech has historically been used to dominating globally, but there are all the signs that it isn't going to happen with AI.

 

Amazon's plans

Figure's plans

Their plans are separate, but what is significant is that they are just two companies, and the raw numbers can be so huge.

Amazon expects to soon save $10 billion a year replacing humans with robots. Amazon currently employs 1.1 million in the US. If we take the average cost of each as $50K - that's 200,000 jobs. Figure is talking about 100,000 robots.

For now, this issue is still relatively politically muted. But for how much longer?

[–] Lugh 3 points 11 months ago

It's fascinating we are living through a time when exoplanets are first being found . This planet is closer to its Red Dwarf star then Mercury is to our far far hotter G-type star. Still, the surface temperature is only 25 degrees Celsius above boiling point.

[–] Lugh 3 points 11 months ago

Pop-up mobile parks can do the same. I love this example from London.

[–] Lugh 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

In most countries, people elect the local officials who make zoning decisions. It's not a fundamental barrier.

[–] Lugh 1 points 11 months ago

Altman and Musk seem to both get away with endless BS.

[–] Lugh 3 points 11 months ago (6 children)

They quote a cost of $1,000 per square meter (S100 sq foot). So I arrived at my calculation assuming a size of 100 sq m/1,000 sq feet for an average 'starter home' 2-bedroom dwelling.

The fact that housing crises are occurring in so many Western countries suggests to me that there is something very fundamental that is broken and wrong with our system of supplying housing - one of life's most basic human necessities.

If the system is the problem, then the system can't provide the solution, perhaps only radical new ways of doing things can?

Germans have a system of purchasing property called "Wohnungsgenossenschaften". It is where individuals come together in a not-for-profit cooperative, to build and finance their own apartment buildings and housing complexes. This technology seems a perfect fit for that, maybe we would all be better off in other western countries if we adopted this system more?

[–] Lugh 1 points 11 months ago

Yes, sadly he was quite prescient. I often think we're in a time of transition/decay because of tech like AI & robotics. Sadly perfect conditions for fascism, which the right has so often transmuted into throughout history.

[–] Lugh 9 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Some people may have doubts about these claims, but China leads the world in manufacturing. They've also blasted past all expectations when it comes to developing batteries, renewables and EVs. I wouldn't bet against them.

[–] Lugh 1 points 11 months ago

I know this isn't a very serious story, but it made me smile. One day soon the robotaxis won't be getting confused anymore. Assuming she gets in office, I'd guess President Harris is going to have to deal with the issue of unemployed human taxi drivers during her four years in office.

[–] Lugh 1 points 11 months ago

I wonder will we look back at stuff like this as the very beginnings of recursive self-improvement by artificial intelligence.

[–] Lugh 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Could be, but isn’t, which is where some regulations probably need to come in.

I assume also that the technological side of things is far from perfected, but that will improve over time.

[–] Lugh 20 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

There's no reason it couldn't be a closed system, where any fertilizer that doesn't become part of the crop biomass is recycled. In theory it should be more sustainable than existing agriculture and use less fertilizer per kg of crop produced.

[–] Lugh 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

This only mentions level 4 auto-driving. Still places like Abu Dhabi or Singapore would be perfect for taxi services using that. Small places where there are plenty of fixed routes that people want to use.

Although we don't know how the future of AI and robotics automation is going to play out, we can foresee that there will be significant milestones. When the population in western countries realize that all driving jobs (taxis, truckers, etc) are gone forever will be one of those.

It is probably true to say that the current US presidential election is the very last one in history that won't be dominated by the issue of reorganizing society as free market human jobs disappear to AI & robotics.

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