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Don't argue with them. Don't give them facts or anything else.
Ask them questions, Let them explain themselves, they'll see it as trying to convert you or explain MAGA to you.
In the process of that, by asking the right question at the right time, they will slowly over the course of multiple years change their mind.
Eventually they'll ask you about your viewpoint and you'll know youve made it the half way point
We don't talk about politics or religion or health.
My parents have never been very well reasoned.
However, I've found that the best way to challenge people's beliefs is to just ask what it would take to change their mind.
You're still not going to win, but their answer will force you to acknowledge that they're nuts and can't be reasoned with.
I used to have political arguments with my dad all the time, but like in a fun debate team way. It really was a fun part of our relationship until 2020... and then shit got real when I moved to a big city and the fun was gone.
When I moved home for a year, the first few months were rough. Lots of anger, lots of pain, but eventually I came to realize nothing I could say would do anything- to my family I was just woke end of story. So I stopped talking politics at all with them, and started talking about music, or yard work, or how we like our coffee. Honestly that opened things up later on to have more honest conversations that were more level headed. Frankly I got him to agree with DEI as a concept so long as I avoided buzzwords or call it DEI by name.
My dad is still the same guy- still funny, he's still bright, he's still kind and would absolutely help a child on the side of the road, he just listened to too much patriot radio. I still call him, but we had to realize our relationship and who we are to each other comes first. Politics might change but he's always my dad and I'm always his son. Besides, when I came out as bi at 16 he was the only one who told me he loved me so that's gotta mean something. He's still in there.
goddamn this murdoch rot has gotten deep...how the fuck do you even begin to deprogram half (1/3rd, atleast) of an entire country?
My dad has always been. I went no contact for a few years during the first few months of covid. Since then we occasionally chat over signal but it's surface level shit and I don't really feel like trying anymore.
Talk to them. Education goes both ways: they educated you when you where an enfant, now's your turn.
Much easier said than done. Some people have a difficult time accepting that their children are adults with different opinions. My Dad still sees me as the little boy he raised, sometimes that's nice and I treasure it. Sometimes it's still the most frustrating thing in the world. I'm fortunate that my parents haven't fallen down the MAGA pipeline but they're definitely more conservative than they were 5 years ago. I couldn't educate my Dad on anything, he just doesn't see me that way. Mind you I don't have to, I'm fortunate.
My point being, for some people their relationship with their parents will never go both ways but that's okay. They're your parents and it's one of the relationships that rarely is symmetrical. My Dad is my father, I'm his son, and I've learned to accept the relationship we have (which is pretty good) rather than get upset about the few problematic beliefs he holds. For people who are not as fortunate as me, zero contact might be the answer. Sometimes it's okay to accept things that aren't perfect.
ha ha ha cute
Dude I wish it were this easy but how you just explained they educated us as an infant, they still see me as an infant. There isn't a thing I can say to make them question their billions of dollars of propaganda because I am simply younger.
The solution will always be communication. You have to tell them that they are pushing you away; how they are hurting you; how you can't live with the hate.
Keep away from the talking points. Talk about your feelings with them. Talk about your fear that if they continue you will lose them. If they still care about you, the thought that they are causing you pain should be horrific to them. Tell them that you fear losing them to hate.
...but keep away from the facts. Don't try to prove them wrong. If they bring stuff up... "I don't care if that's true or not. It makes you angry, and full of hate, and I can't live with that level of hate in my life".
Share emotions. Don't worry who's right or wrong. It'll be hard, but that's the only way to start. Their rational brain is corrupted. It doesn't work and appealing to it won't work.
Really good advice, thank you.
My mom is liberal enough, but my brother fell down the pipeline. He recently tried to convince my mom i was brainwashed to be a LGBTQ Muslim extremist by my wife (note, I am a man) and he made 51st state memes on canada day. I don't really know what to do, I just try not to be alone with him.
He recently tried to convince my mom i was brainwashed to be a LGBTQ Muslim extremist by my wife (note, I am a man)
Wow, that's pretty next-level.
I don't keep in contact with my family, but I'd have no problem telling trump supporters that they're dumbasses straight to their faces.
Don't let them have any peace with those opinions. My mother became a cop when I was a kid and she went from tree hugging hippie to loud and proud racist so fast. It took YEARS of arguing and fighting every time she said something racist before I could finally get through to her. Don't let up. My sister got sucked into transphobic bs too and she finally stopped talking about it after getting a lot of pushback over a couple of years. My husband got sucked into the alt right pipeline in the late 2010s after a lifetime of being hard left. That also took a couple years of never letting anything slide and fighting about every stupid video he watched. Don't give up on your family and cut them out, either, though, please. I know it's tempting but I feel we all have the responsibility to pull our loved ones out of the cult. It's the only way for society to move forward. It's hard. I know. I've done it three times.
How is your husband now? I canβt believe how many people you pulled back from the abyss. Does fighting them on everything actually work?
He is back to normal now thankfully. I can't say it would always work but it has worked for me. It's just exhausting and really hard. By the time my sister was going through it (she was the most recent), I was burnt out and did have to stop talking to her for a few months. I don't regret it though because I still have all of them in my life and they aren't driving me insane anymore.
I don't think i could do it. I don't have the patience. So irritating.
No contact. I tried. I tried so hard to point out the wrongs committed by the regime that I thought that they would disagree with, but MAGAs just bend reality around it all.
It's painful, given that most of us don't do this out of a sense of right or wrong, but because we care. You get used to it eventually though.
I deal with it pretty easily, I donβt have contact with them lol.
For me, what has sort of worked it pointing out that both sides of the news are getting basic facts wrong - things where there shouldn't even be a debate. If the news was true, you could watch any channel - it would all be the same. Instead, we get things like one side claiming murders are up and the other claiming murders are down. Our current journalism is a failure of a system designed to drive engagement/viewership/clicks rather than convey knowledge.
I also find it helps to remind them that we're Americans first, party second. The other side isn't stupid, they're just getting a completely different set of 'news'.
I use these too. The "team sports" nature of it all is really deeply engrained, like a "water is invisible to a fish" kind of way. You can use that to surprise them and build some genuine curiosity sometimes.
It's really disarming and opens up convo when I seem to disagree with them on everything... but then just agree and help them attack whichever hideous Democrat they go after during a given conversation. Same for news, the conversation shifts in useful ways when they learn I dislike "their" (Fox and worse) news, as well as what they think of as "mine".
It's not enough to magically deprogram anyone, but it can start the gears turning. In my experience it usually takes the situation from two people standing across from each other fussing at one another, to two people standing together fussing at everything else. It's a start.
My parents are not MAGA (They are more "centre-left"), but I do feel very sorry for anyone who has to deal with parents like that. I have other family members who support MAGA, and I simply don't talk to them, because I cannot look them in their eyes, knowing that they support pure evil. Their Facebook profiles make my blood boil, but I try my best just to watch the meme my father sent me, so I can carry on with my day, without it being ruined by my Neo-Nazi fascist family members. We aren't even American, but you know the saying by now - "When America sneezes, the whole world catches a cold".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brainwashing_of_My_Dad?wprov=sfla1
In this particular case, the answer was to - quite literally - turn off the TV.
I don't imagine this is a good option for many, but shutting off the incoming flow of hate can make a difference.
"You are what you eat". If someone only consumes ~~fascist propaganda~~ right-wing media, then they will become more ~~fascist~~ right-winged.
To OOP: You might not be able to turn off their TV. But you should share unbiased or left-leaning articles, shows, news, etc. And try to get them to "eat" a more balanced diet.
I haven't talked to my mom since before trump even ran for president so.
How old are your parents? If they are retired, that might explain a lot. People say you become broad minded, wise and knowledgeable if you have ample time to read and educate yourself, instead of working more (that's why many people say society's obsession with work is a distraction tool to prevent people thinking that the system is rigged). However, it also goes the inverse towards extreme radicalisation.
I don't have a practical advise to give to de-redicalise your parents, but typically radicalisation is not just you have too much time to consume so many contents, but also loneliness is a factor which most people overlook. Hannah Arendt made a conclusion in her book, Origins of Totalitarianism, that loneliness is a precursor to totalitarianism. The far right (and far left as well) sell the snake oil that only they can bring people together again.
A lot of old people who are lonely are vulnerable to extremist propaganda because their minds are not in the right place. This is something to consider imo when you have to interact with your parents. Genuine human connection is the missing ingredient. A friend of mine has also become far right. He moved to London many years ago, and my guess is that because big cities tend to be individualistic, this made him lonely. The far right rabbithole created a sense of togetherness and purpose for listless individuals.
Edit: wording
Interesting food for thought. Feels like a catch 22 that they need more human interaction to help with their ideologies, but their ideologies make people not want to be around them (except for other people in the cult). It's also vexing that they can know a Muslim or an undocumented immigrant, and have that "oh no, they're one of the good ones" logic and still demonize the rest of the people from those groups. I wonder how many people they need to know from an out-group before they stop demonizing the whole group.
That book sounds interesting, I'm adding it to my list at the library. Thanks for the recommendation and also all the thoughtful advice!
I'm from the UK so my answer will be mostly UK centric.
My dad has become very right-wing in recent years. He supports Reform UK, he uncritically supports everything Israel does, he thinks that refugee boats should be sunk by the Navy without regard for the lives of the people on board. He hates LGBTQ+ people and thinks same sex marriage should be outlawed. He hates Islam and Muslims, and thinks that all mosques in the UK should be shut down. He wants the death penalty to return and for it to be applied very frequently. He thinks protestors and activists should be shot and killed by the police if they cause even minor disturbance. He thinks COVID was a hoax and that the vaccines are dangerous. He thinks Trump is great, except for his stance on Russia (my dad despises Putin).
It's very sad how far down the rabbit hole he's gone. I always thought of my dad as an intelligent man, because he was pretty accomplished academically and was always interested in science and technology. He always put logic before dogma and emotion.
But the shit he's been absorbing on the internet over the past 10 or so years has changed him entirely. He believes every far-right conspiracy going, and has a violent attitude towards everything, seemingly thinking that everyone that doesn't conform to right-wing standards should be harmed.
I don't bring up politics anymore, but if the topic does come up somehow, I will tell him why he's talking bullshit. In my opinion, social media and online propaganda has done a serious number on the psyche of older people. They fall for every lie hook, line, and sinker. It's made them fucking insane.
Cut off, and I realized just how much toxicity they brought into my house. No regrets. Iβve heard from others that without other people to blame their problems on they eventually turned on each other and are divorcing. The family is now safe from them.