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Is it racist to oppose illegal immigrants? (thelemmy.club)

submitted 1 day ago by Bidah@thelemmy.club to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world

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[–] Fedditor385@lemmy.world 1 points 36 minutes ago* (last edited 30 minutes ago)

No,

because it doesn't even fit the definition of racism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

Illegal immigrants are of absolutely all sorts, so there is no single human trait that is uniquely only found in illegal migrants. Also, people don't oppose illegal migrants, they oppose illegal migration as a general thing. Illegal migrants are not the problem, they are simply the cause, and people hate the problems that arise in a society after to much illegal migration.

People need to stop calling everyone they disagree with racists, its so watered down that it completely lost any meaning and weight behind it. Didn't get up to a granny on the bus? Racist. Driving a white car? Racist. Using an iPhone? Racist.

There is a version of illegal migration that I would support and truly leave an open door for everyone: You must adopt the culture, you must learn the language, you must find a job, you won't get any welfare or housing and you can't ask for anything in our society to be "like it was at your home". And voila! Everyone welcome.

[–] umbrella@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

yes. the ones complaining about "immigrants" at all are the ones who made their lives shit in the first place.

let them in and fucking take care of them.

[–] Pika@rekabu.ru 5 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

There could be many reasons to be opposed to it, not necessarily racist ones.

You can support the rule of law - that's not racist. You may want to support legal immigration, while closing illegal ways that commonly lead to abuse of migrants - this is straight up progressive. You may consider illegal immigrants more dangerous as they didn't go through screening procedures - that's up for debate, but not necessarily racist, etc. And generally, if you consider that same rules should apply to everyone, this is not racist.

However, it's worth considering the laws of your area and the way they can affect legal migration. Going against illegal immigration and at the same time voting to complicate legal one, especially in relation to certain nationals, likely signals of racism (or, rather, ultranationalism). It is one thing to want to make the process transparent and legal and the other - to build more barriers.

[–] Fleur_@aussie.zone 2 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Why do you oppose illegal immigration

[–] CombatWombatEsq@lemmy.world 1 points 23 minutes ago

Because it's illegal, duh. Once you enshrine your prejudices in law, they're no longer racism, they're just moral purity.

[–] rowinxavier@lemmy.world 5 points 5 hours ago

The term is a little racist. It is like defining someone as an excon, or ex convict, rather than someone who has spent time in prison. Or as disabled rather than a person with a disability. You define people as a simple thing rather than as a whole person with a feature. It flattens people into less than they are and makes them less than human.

So opposing people who flaunt the rules is a separate question to opposing illegal immigrants. You don't dismiss their humanity, you don't discard them, you say "You breeched the rules and here are the consequences."

The second layer is whether you believe in the rules. Do you believe people from other countries are fundamentally different to you? Are they less because of where they come from? If so, yes, racist. If not, then probably not.

[–] rising_man@lemmy.world 10 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Considering the high proportion of the population with ancestors who were illegal immigrants, there's also a question of what you consider as acceptable.

If illegal immigrants in the US are all white Christian beautiful women filling jobs that locals don't want to do in healthcare, is it different than Pedro from Honduras who works in construction but looks like he could be a drug mule.

[–] x00z@lemmy.world 3 points 5 hours ago

OP did not mention the US.

[–] pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 10 hours ago

I wouldn't say it's racist to oppose illegal immigration, but it makes me suspect you might be and also makes me think you have very little empathy.

[–] Taleya@aussie.zone 1 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (1 children)

Define illegal immigrant

[–] Fleur_@aussie.zone 0 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Someone who immigrated illegally?

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 2 hours ago

I guess nobody ever taught you that rule about not using the word(s) you're trying to define, in the definition itself?

[–] LettyWhiterock@lemmy.world 20 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

I feel like "illegal" immigration as a concept is inherently racist and being upset and anyone for not coming over the "right" way is also racist.

[–] HereIAm@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Without a one world government that could police people cross border, wouldn't it be all to easy walk in to a country, do a bit crime, and then walk to the next one? Not to mention human trafficking problems if no one was tracked how they travel across countries.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

So you think every person on the planet should be tracked every time they cross any border anywhere?

[–] HereIAm@lemmy.world 1 points 29 minutes ago

I don't. I would obviously like a world where border control wasn't necessary for travel. And it's obviously not an impossibility considering the schengen area exists. But I don't see tracking influx of immigrants to be a bad thing, if anything so you know how many resources to budget for their care (in the case of refugees) and making sure people don't go missing.

[–] asceticism@lemmy.world 2 points 11 hours ago

Even if the law bars say only pedodiles from entry? Just hung up on the word anyone here. I'm guessing there are some number of people we can all agree should be kept outside of a given sect of people. Even back in the day there would be exile's.

Then if we say some number of people should be bared there would be a "right" way.

I'm not saying immigration policy is good now. Far from it.

[–] Adderbox76@lemmy.ca 11 points 16 hours ago

It really depends on why you oppose them. There is no real answer to that question.

[–] socsa@piefed.social 23 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

No human is illegal

[–] DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 22 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

being a nazi should be illegal

deport musk

[–] itztalal@lemmings.world 16 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

No, race doesn't have anything to do with it.

If you oppose illegal immigration, though, you should ask yourself why.

If it's solely that you don't want people coming over to your nation illegally, then it's very likely that they aren't able to because of how complicated and exclusive your nation's immigration system is.

[–] steeznson@lemmy.world 7 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Their mode of entry into the UK was illegal but any asylum claims they make will be assessed as being potentially valid. I think you were saying the same thing but not sure.

The reason people are particularly pissed off is that Farage and co. have framed the debate as an issue of fairness. Essentially the charge levelled at the irregular migrants is queue jumping, which we don't look upon fondly in our culture.

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

On our side of the pond, it’s becoming more apparent how many ways immigrants can end up undocumented. Of course it’s always framed as drug cartel member sneaking over the border at night to rape the women, or whatever bs stereotypes they can use to frighten people, but

sometimes it’s a college student who dropped out of school and didn’t leave
sometimes it’s a tech worker who got laid off and hasn’t yet found another sponsor
sometimes it’s someone struggling to do the right thing and missed something. Maybe a paperwork thing a decade ago
sometimes it’s an ambush when they are doing the right thing
sometimes they’re refugees from horrible circumstances.
sometimes it’s someone just trying to work
sometimes they’re just trying to live as a family when a cruel system would separate them

If your system, like ours, uses the worst stereotypes to scapegoat all undocumented aliens, deprives them of their rights, uses racial profiling to decide who to attack, “officers” hide their faces and identities and don’t even seem to know the laws they’re supposedly enforcing, use escalating violence for infractions that have always been civil issues, claim they’re deporting “the worst of the worst criminals” while setting ambushes at work sites and immigrant processing centers, then you too may be racist

We’re over here trying to set an example of what NOT to do, apparently.

[–] steeznson@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

There are genuine integration issues in the UK so the anti-migrant bloc do have some valid concerns. However, there will be a non-insignificant amount of racists among them.

Weirdly, the "skipping the queue" rhetoric even works with fellow migrants. I have a friend from Iran who I used to work with that moved to the UK ~3 years ago; he's way angrier about irregular channel crossings than the average Scottish person I know. I'd imagine spending a lot of money and years on a waiting list before being given a work visa was a grating experience though.

[–] ieGod@lemmy.zip 7 points 19 hours ago

Maybe. Depends. It's complicated.

[–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 13 points 23 hours ago

no.

however, it is racist to oppose them because they're not your race.

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