this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2025
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[–] socsa@piefed.social 38 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Hey I studied this in grad school for a bit, and it really is just "someone does some dumb shit which leads to a cascading wave of additional people doing dumb shit which propagates backwards for miles." Basically when the offered load is getting close to the maximum load, all it takes is one person aggressively changing lanes to throw that section of highway into gridlock, and it will remain that way until the total integrated traffic flux across that incident boundary again falls below the critical offered load inflection point.

Basically, pick a lane and just stay in it. Maintain proper following distance. Counterintuitively, the following distance should be for the speed you want to drive, so even in traffic it should be like 5+ car lengths even though you are going slow. This is because it reduces the offered load, and once that number falls below the critical point, speeds will increase again. Bumper to bumper traffic basically prevents that from happening because it dampens the ability for a "speedup" wave to propagate.

Of course this is all impossible for humans. All it takes is a few idiots to throw off the balance.

[–] Takios@discuss.tchncs.de 31 points 7 hours ago

so even in traffic it should be like 5+ car lengths even though you are going slow.

Other drivers: "It's free real estate"

[–] bitwolf@sh.itjust.works 8 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (1 children)

It all starts with someone in the passing lane, not passing, and one or more pissed off people behind them :)

The pissed off people trying to get around causes the wave of people behind them to brake and it snowballs from there.

[–] dingus@lemmy.world 5 points 6 hours ago

Yeah I drive around 3 hours on the highway every several weeks. Sometimes on my drive, there's obviously traffic. A lot of times it will be something like rush hour traffic, a crash, construction, etc.

But then like...a good portion of the time when I come to the very front of the "clog", I find that it is just a blockade of multiple people going incredibly slowly and taking up all lanes of traffic, refusing to move over despite the fact that they are going under the speed limit.

[–] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 8 points 7 hours ago

People drive too close to each other, someone has to slow down and then the car behind slows down a bit more. Repeat until you get to the point someone completely stops. Then the next car stops for slightly longer.

If you leave a safe distance then it wouldn't happen.

[–] l_isqof@lemmy.world 4 points 6 hours ago

You are thr traffic.

[–] Stamets@lemmy.world 56 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (3 children)

Only ever have to ask, my friend

Heres an overview shot of a traffic pulse.

One person brakes for no reason which leads to everyone else braking. The pulse travels despite there being nothing there. The longer it can take for someone to start up again also can delay the whole thing.

[–] Hikermick@lemmy.world 21 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 6 minutes ago) (1 children)

It happens when people tailgate. They over react and it causes an accordion effect.

[–] NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 13 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

Or when people drive too aggressively and cut someone off, causing the person being cut off to slam on their brake.

[–] Lemminary@lemmy.world 5 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

Iirc, the answer is to have someone drive slowly and let other cars pass. It creates a buffer zone that regulates the flow back to normal pace. Or at least that's what I remember from New Scientist's video from like a decade ago.

[–] untorquer@lemmy.world 3 points 7 hours ago

I used to just idle when traffic moved. Slowed down way before i was even close to the car ahead. Played a game where i was trying to move at a constant speed or max fuel econ. Much less stressful to always be moving than gas/brake every 10s, even if you're moving 5mph.

Really helps to look 3-4 cars ahead for brake lights.

[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 2 points 8 hours ago

not slowly, just leave room

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[–] badbytes@lemmy.world 2 points 6 hours ago

Reaction times of humans.

[–] YoSoySnekBoi@kbin.earth 117 points 15 hours ago (10 children)

Most traffic jams actually act as a kind of compression wave moving backwards through traffic. Something as small as a squirrel running across the road can cascade into an hour-long jam.

One person brakes, then the person behind them, then the person behind them, but each time they are getting closer to each other (nobody stays equidistant from the car in front of them when braking). This causes a greater and greater slowdown as more cars are compacted into a tighter space, which travels backwards in traffic like a wave. Often the person who caused it doesn't even realize anything happened.

A lot of mapping software actually estimates a given traffic slowdown by treating traffic as a fluid with a wave moving backwards through it.

[–] kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 77 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (13 children)

That's also why the best way to relieve traffic is to go at a slow even pace without braking. Every time the someone in heavy traffic runs up the ass of another car and brakes hard, or swerves into the "faster" lane and make someone else brake to not hit them, they cause another brake wave. If you have a few cars intentionally just hanging back and cruising with a big enough gap between them and the cars jocking for position in traffic in front of them, then their brake waves do not propogate behind you and eventually traffic just picks up pace again.

Edit: side bonus, you still get there just as fast, but with a lot less stress fighting assholes for position (minus the ones who fly past you thinking you're the asshole for not riding someone else's bumper)

[–] OR3X@lemmy.world 30 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (14 children)

Yeah, in theory it's great but every time I try it people just cut in front of me then slam on brakes causing me to have to brake then adjust then repeat ad nauseam. People suck.

[–] socsa@piefed.social 1 points 7 hours ago

Then leave another gap. There are finite idiots in the world, and you cannot actually go backwards.

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 10 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

Yeah, maybe I’m fooling myself but it really seems like hanging back more makes me have to do more sudden braking. Traffic seems smoothest when I’m close enough to discourage cut-ins …. Even if that means Im more at the mercy of traffic in front flowing down a bit

But as a corollary, this is one of the reasons fewer lanes are sometimes better. A main road near me proved this out when they cut back from two lanes in each direction to one plus turn lanes. There’s no more jockeying for position, no more cut-in’s and you no longer have to protect your gap. Traffic is smooth and calm, and it improved accident statistics. Most importantly timing to get through that section is consistently better!

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[–] socsa@piefed.social 1 points 7 hours ago

Right, if you think about the creation of traffic as a negative speed wave which causes compression, and traffic alleviation as a positive speed wave which requires rarefaction, then it becomes clear why traffic is so stubborn. When people are so bunched together, no positive speed wave can propagate. Which is why you literally get to to the point where the original idiot slammed on the brakes and the traffic magically disintegrates. If everyone stayed 5 car lengths apart in traffic, that alleviation would actually propagate backwards as fast as the initial congestion.

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[–] SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works 20 points 11 hours ago (3 children)

3 fucking seconds

The answer is a simple 3 second gap.

That's it, just 3-mississippi (or 3-onethousand) seconds behind the car in front of you and most of the avoidable jams go away.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 20 points 10 hours ago (4 children)

If you do that, someone will move into the gap. If someone moves into the gap you can slow down to make another gap to them, but then someone else will drive into that gap. I don't know of any major city where you can maintain a 3 second gap during rush hour.

Even worse, if you ever brake to try to create a gap, you're likely to cause a traffic jam behind you.

Sure, if everybody did follow the suggestion and allowed a 3 second gap you wouldn't have traffic jams, but that's just not human nature, apparently.

[–] plyth@feddit.org 4 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Teach people to drive on the right lane unless they want to overtake somebody. Whoever overtakes you on the left won't drive into the gap because they also want to overtake whoever is driving in front of you.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 hours ago

It's too late to teach the entire population how to drive differently now.

[–] SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works 2 points 8 hours ago

You attribute an uneducated, uncivil approach to human nature, but I have been in human queues around the world, and they vary hugely based on cultural and social differences.

What you think is human nature seems to actually be driving culture in your region.

Yesterday I had a swasticar driver actually let me in on a disorderly merge. I was amazed, it was a first. Clue: nothing about Hondas changes people to be better. Tesla and BMW drivers are just shittier at sharing. This is culturally allowed.

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[–] PhobosAnomaly@feddit.uk 62 points 15 hours ago (7 children)

A few years ago, I was bitching and moaning about a jam, and my pal just said "you're not in traffic, you are traffic".

I know it's nothing more than a cheeky soundbite but just reframing it like that and knowing I'm part of the problem rather than the exception has made me a lot calmer on slow moving roads.

Plus it has encouraged me to either use public transport more, or just drive to a park-and-ride a mile or three out, and run the rest - facilities permitting of course.

[–] bobs_monkey@lemmy.zip 1 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

I still lose it when I finally get to the front of the jam, and the only reason for said jam is because everyone is stopping to look at an accident on the OTHER SIDE OF THE HIGHWAY.

[–] PhobosAnomaly@feddit.uk 1 points 6 hours ago

Yeah, it's frustrating.

I'm not entirely sure what the rubberneckers want to see either. "Oh look, someone critically injured next to someone who is likely deceased", because that isn't a day ruiner at the best of times.

Odd.

[–] Battle_Masker@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

"No John, YOU are the traffic!"

And then John was traffic

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[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 18 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

The people at the front are morons and probably in the wrong lane.

[–] NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 3 points 9 hours ago

You don't like driving 55 in the passing lane? You get such a great view of everyone flipping you off!

[–] Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 1 points 6 hours ago

Traffic is a "thing" because the slowest common perambulator is always in front

[–] Gustephan@lemmy.world 7 points 11 hours ago

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3417/11/9/4278

TLDR: modeling traffic as a gas leads to fairly accurate predictions. If that doesnt mean anything to you, here's a decent visualization of how gasses move around in a system. In this analogy, each of the gas particles models a car on the road. https://youtu.be/Hr5Baj3lXFA

[–] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 17 points 13 hours ago (4 children)

It's usually a complex crowd effect created by many participants trying to maneuver among each other in slightly disperate ways.

In Portland OR, it really is because some dingbat slowed down to 20 MPH on the interstate for literally no fucking reason at all.

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[–] iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works 32 points 15 hours ago (17 children)

99% of traffic like this is caused by people following too closely.

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[–] ThePantser@sh.itjust.works 32 points 15 hours ago (15 children)

It's the people not zipper merging correctly. You have idiots entering that are not up to speed and you have idiots breaking for the idiots not up to speed.

On ramps should be required to have their lane not end abruptly which causes the panic. The on ram should continue for at least a 1/4 mile.

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[–] bobo1900@startrek.website 23 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

CGP grey did a video on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHzzSao6ypE

Basically one car breaking too much will make the following brake even more and so on until one stops and there's a jam. There is no clear reason like a road blockage or an accident, just compounding slow down.

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[–] DarkAri@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (1 children)

Its because of two things. One is that people hog the passing lane or try to pass slowly so it takes them a few minutes to overtake a few cars, and also because people drive at different speeds. Some people drive at the speed that feels comfortable, others drive the state imposed speed limit. This creates pockets of dense traffic, and then people try to pass, but there is always the person who tries to pass as slow as possible because they are going a few mph over the speed limit.

Its really just a bad combination of laws, and drivers who are terrified of breaking the law, and people who dont know how to drive correctly in a way to reduce traffic. Also many people are just never consider that others also need to use the roads. They don't care about traffic. Some people also have health issues, like blindness, or mental handicaps, which means driving at interstate speeds is about all they can muster.

[–] NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 3 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

Hey, if you have some physical limitation and cannot or are simply not comfortable going faster, that's 100% fine (assuming you can operate a car safely). Stay the hell in the right lane and never leave it, thanks

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