this post was submitted on 06 Jun 2024
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I often take painkillers (acetaminophen aka paracetamol), but I've noticed that it's much more effective if I take them TOGETHER with my ADHD medication (ritalin aka methylphenidate) + my morning coffee. If I don't take them AT the same time, the painkiller is far less effective.

I do not exceed the maximum dosage of painkiller (1gram per intake, mornings), but alone this would barely suffice to kill my morning headache.

My hypothesis is that since the LIVER has to convert all three, I am effectively overdosing on either substance (painkiller or ADHD meds), and damaging my liver in the process.

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[–] Wahots@pawb.social 90 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Talk to your doctor, do not get medical advice from the internet, it is too risky.

[–] Iheartcheese@lemmy.world 12 points 6 months ago

Counterpoint: Do more drugs the internet says so.

[–] CuttingBoard@sopuli.xyz 3 points 6 months ago

Half a pack of cigarettes will make the headache go away. Make sure to sprinkle them with turmeric.

[–] tiredofsametab@kbin.run 62 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Wrong question, I would argue. If you have a morning headache, you should really find the root of that and try to resolve it making the medication unnecessary.

[–] dysprosium@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 6 months ago (10 children)

I know, but I've headaches since I was about 10 (now almost ~30), and the only causes for this that I can seriously come up with is: being sensitive af in general, which then leads to being (subconsciously) easily stressed, which then, results in headache. This happens during the day, but I also (more) frequently wake up with a headache for no reason. This even happens in the summer, when I'm not doing ANYthing (no school, university, work). I am generally perfectly healthy. I am hydrated, eat healthy, etc. I don't exercise an awful lot, but when I do (for months), I barely notice any difference.

Being "sensitive" (whatever that means exactly) is the only weird but plausible explanation. Reading the other comments, though, like sleep apnea, I'm curious if that's anything...

[–] MrBobDobalina@lemmy.ml 26 points 6 months ago

If you have the option, I would suggest going to a Dr before assuming anything is the only plausible explanation.

Personally, I found out about my neck / posture issues (even though outwardly I have decent looking posture so I never assumed it would be that), got some excercises from a physio and a completely different pillow, and that combo drastically reduced my headaches

[–] liam070@sopuli.xyz 9 points 6 months ago (1 children)

But did you talk about it with a medical trained person ? In the end its just a damaged nerve in your neck or sonething that can be easily fixed with proper care.

[–] dysprosium@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 6 months ago (2 children)

I did many times but most of the time I was just advised to "try eating and sleeping better" which I kind of already did, but improving those did not make a difference whatsoever. I also went to many physiotherapists and one manual orthopedic doctor. Nothing was ever improved.

Except one time when I went to a acupuncturist who also added some spiritual woo, and that actually remedied a part of it.

[–] Lumisal@lemmy.world 8 points 6 months ago (6 children)

That combined with what you mentioned about cannabis triggering your headache sounds like the issue might be your trigeminal nerve (my guess mylohyoid) or similar nerve branch in the neck area. Sleeping likely causes it because there's constant pressure on it at night as you sleep.

An orthopedic pillow might help, something such as this for example: https://www.amazon.com/Osteo-Cervical-Odorless-Adjustable-Orthopedic/dp/B09964WTF5?th=1&psc=1

Alternative hypothesis would be it's blood pressure related, perhaps orthostatic hypotension or fluctuating hypertension - you can test this by getting a good blood pressure machine and checking in the morning before you get up from bed without moving much, immediately after sitting up, immediately after standing, and then stay standing still for 1 minute and take again.

Probably don't need the coffee by the way considering the medicine you take (Ritalin)

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[–] Crashumbc@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago

Find another doctor, and another one after that...

Unfortunately, most doctors SUCK, if you have even a slightly complicated or unusual problem.

[–] tiredofsametab@kbin.run 4 points 6 months ago

I have some chronic pain issues as well, some of which were solved and some are managed. I'm sorry you're going through this. Have you tried getting a second opinion or maybe a different type of medical provider? I had headaches as well that turned out to be largely brought on by stress and also some bad posture. I did get an MRI+MRA just to be sure nothing was actually wrong in the brain itself, but techniques to reduce the causes were helpful to me. Good luck!

[–] volvoxvsmarla@lemm.ee 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Ok, follow up question. If you don't take a painkiller in the morning, how does the headache progress?

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[–] hayreddin@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Another hypothesis is bruxism (teeth grinding). Some people have it during the day, others (like me) have it during sleep. Stress and anxiety makes it worse. I only discovered I had it because people heard me biting my teeth against each other while asleep. I went to a dentist, she made me a mouth guard that I use every night before going to sleep, and the morning headaches stopped since then.

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[–] troed@fedia.io 52 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Many countries have lowered the max dosage of Paracetamol from 1000mg since there's indeed a worry that it will cause liver damage. I'm in one of the countries that still go with 1000 (Sweden) and my suggestion would be to use 500mg Paracetamol and 400mg Ibuprofen taken together instead. That's what the medical professionals themselves do.

That said, something in your life is causing you to have morning headaches and it's a better idea to fix that. Regular painkiller usage is one of the things that causes it (!). Other possibilities can be waking up during the wrong sleep cycle (deep vs light), sleep apnea causing bad sleep in general, overdosing on caffeine causing withdrawal symptoms in the morning etc.

/Not a medical professional

[–] Today@lemmy.world 11 points 6 months ago (1 children)

It's shockingly easy to OD on acetaminophen. I don't think you are; i just think it's interesting how a few Tylenol plus a couple doses of cold medicine can be serious.

[–] TheRealKuni@lemmy.world 17 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Also a fatal dose of acetaminophen/paracetamol is one of the worst ways to die. If you don’t get treatment within like, eight hours of taking it, you will slowly die of liver failure over the next few days and there’s nothing anyone can do about it. So you painfully waste away in the hospital.

Stories of people who attempted suicide by downing a whole bottle of Tylenol are horrific, because MANY people who attempt suicide regret it after the attempt (as is reported by people who survive attempts). This means that people who attempt suicide this way still die, slowly, painfully, regretting it but unable to do anything about it, over a few days. Having to face their loved ones, knowing how hurt those loved ones are by the action. The idea terrifies me.

Note, I am not a doctor, so take this with a grain of salt. But this is what I’ve read.

[–] philpo@feddit.de 5 points 6 months ago

Paramedic here who worked a lot with toxicology patients: You are entirely right.

It's always horrific.

[–] Today@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago

Yeah, that's what I've read, a day or two of feeling shitty, a day of feeling better and been dead.

[–] KittenBiscuits@lemm.ee 35 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Long time headache adventurer here.

You are basically making a homemade Excedrin (acetaminophen + aspirin + caffeine). Stimulants cause your body to metabolize the pain reliever more quickly.

As for if you're ruining your liver, I can't say, other than you should probably go see you doctor and ask for a blood panel/ liver function test. Even if your liver values are normal, you'll know for sure, and have a baseline to compare future tests against. Plus your doctor may have some thoughts on why you're having a headache everyday.

For me it turned out that while i had acceptable blood pressure, it was high "for me", and a beta blocker took care of the most frequent headaches. But we didn't figure that out until we had ruled out a whole bunch of other things.

It was a frustrating journey to be sure. I wish you luck in yours.

[–] dysprosium@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 6 months ago

Perhaps you're hitting the nail on the head. My blood pressure is apparently normal (at least during the day). But perhaps it is indeed too high for me. It feels plausible but idk what that is worth. I'm going to ask my doctor to test this idea. Not sure yet which med for lowering blood pressure is good. I thought that Beta blockers were specifically for headache patients. Perhaps this is why... Also, apparently ACE inhibitors and ARBs are also blood pressure lowering agents. Any experience with those...?

[–] Blizzard@lemmy.zip 13 points 6 months ago (2 children)

It's best to talk to a doctor instead of asking random people on the Internet.

But since you asked, weed helps to mitigate headaches better than paracetamol and doesn't affect your liver.

[–] dysprosium@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 6 months ago (2 children)
[–] zakobjoa@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Well, there's your problem, then.

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[–] binomialchicken@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Another thing to talk to your doctor about.

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[–] KISSmyOSFeddit@lemmy.world 13 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Here's a question for you: Do you regularly drink anything that doesn't have caffeine or alcohol in it, at all?

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[–] abbadon420@lemm.ee 10 points 6 months ago (3 children)

This thread sounds like a stackoverflow stereotype "How do I do X?... You shouldn't do X, you should do Y" except that the people in this thread are actually giving good advice (to find the root cause).

[–] Tetsuo@jlai.lu 4 points 6 months ago

Honestly, the only good advice is to consult a doctor.

[–] KISSmyOSFeddit@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago

Most of those Stackoverflow answers telling you you're going at your problem the wrong way are correct, too.

[–] perfectduck@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago

Definitely can see this. Seeing a good family practice doctor or GP would be my advice, this kind of thing is their bread and butter. Sounds like there's a few potential issues.

[–] rufus@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Talk do your doctor.

a) Paracetamol on it's own isn't healty for your liver if taken regularly. I don't know the specifics or if there is a safe dose.

b) Headache is one of the adverse drug effects of Paracetamol. Maybe you're getting part of your headaches from it in the first place.

[–] dysprosium@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I asked the doctor that prescribed the adhd meds, but he said it's no problem with paracetamol. However, I did not explicitly mention taking it at the exact same time. If I take them 5 minutes apart, the painkiller is already far less effective. All taken on an empty stomach.

Not taking paracetamol for many months did not lessen the headache whatsoever.

[–] rufus@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Ah, alright. Yeah interaction of medication is a complicated thing. I'd advise you to ask your specific questions to a doctor. Is it okay to take them at the same time, is it okay on an empty stomach, is it okay for my liver to take that dose of paracetamol x-times in a month... Maybe they suggest an alternative to Paracetamol that works better and has less side-effects, thus being more appropriate for you, individually. And I think doctors have access to databases and general recommendations concerning drugs and reciprocity and (case) studies. They're probably more qualified to make a judgement and know about possible superior alternatives. (If there are any.)

They can also just test your blood and see if your liver is fine with what it's been subjected to.

Yeah, I'd say abstaining from the medication for months and still having the same headaches pretty much rules out it being the cause of that.

I hope you'll be granted an appropriate solution to your problem. Living with regular pain... isn't nice.

[–] Xantar@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 6 months ago (1 children)

How come you have a headache every morning ? Sounds pretty worrying to me.

[–] dysprosium@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

good question, I wish I knew... I am perfectly healthy as far as I can tell. Have had it since I was 10. Perhaps stress that I am incapable of getting rid of, even if don't have ANY obligation. It's like its an inherent part of me, never letting go of me...

[–] Xantar@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

There is a plethora of causes for "headache", but you could maybe figure it out based on where and how it hurts. Get it checked.

[–] idiomaddict@feddit.de 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I have AuDHD, and… yeah, I sometimes get so tense that I get muscle aches because of stress that I create myself.

That being said, I also suggest you talk to a doctor, because it would be way better if there was a way to fix it. If you can’t, then harm reduction in painkillers makes sense, but if there’s a simple solution (like nighttime stretching or going to bed earlier), you’ll save yourself a lot of worry and pain.

Additionally, please don’t feel pressured to discuss this here (though I’m happy to talk to you further about it, I’m just not trying to pry), but something to consider: I tend to, as a result of my AuDHD, process really unpleasant personal situations somewhat subconsciously. What I mean is that I’m often not aware of negative emotions until I notice their psychosomatic effects on my body. I used to get headaches 3-5 days a week that would basically send me to bed after work. When my awful boyfriend broke up with me, they went away. I was incredibly unhappy with him and didn’t realize it, but I still carried a lot of tension that expressed itself physically.

For another example: I’m now in grad school and I’m a stereotype of an ADHD student (not everyone with ADHD is like this, but I definitely procrastinate until deadline stress can carry me through), so it’s very difficult. Since I started my master’s, I’ve also started vomiting, a lot. I’m getting checked out (tomorrow, actually) to see if there’s a physical cause, but I’m 90% sure it’s just stress. I’ll be done with my degree in February, but if it were a job instead of a temporary thing, I’d probably have to quit or develop some more effective coping skills.

I just wanted to throw that out there and suggest that you might be physically reacting to a source of stress or tension in your life, and you might want to weigh whether that tension is worth the headaches or whether you can employ coping skills and assertively reduce that stress.

[–] dysprosium@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 6 months ago

yes... what you describe is actually my main hypothesis regarding headache as well. Subconscious stress build-up, basically. But to make this problem probably unsolvable is that I'm even subconsciously stressed in the holidays. Even if I go live with my mother for a few months, not having to do ANYthing but relax, I think I am still not relaxed. Perhaps it's not stress but I think it probably is. So I think I have to force relaxation somehow, because apparently I am unable to do so myself. Being tense does run in a family a bit. I'm just fucked.

Perhaps botox injection in the scalp can help. I know, it sounds perhaps crazy if you're not familiar with it, but this is legit practice, the acid forces the tiny muscles around the scalp to temporarily relax. Just throwin' it out there :S

[–] Toes@ani.social 6 points 6 months ago

Seriously talk it over with the doc that prescribed you the ADHD meds. 1 gram of ace is a lot!

Be clear about what you're doing and when.

In my personal experience that may differ from your own. The morning headache could simply be dehydration or minor withdrawal from the meds.

Generally speaking taking a 2 week break from the pain medication and caffeine may clear up your symptoms. But this is not professional advice, I'm not a medical professional. You should ask a doctor about this suggestion or any other remedies the good people of Lemmy suggest.

My doctor recommended strongly against having caffeine with the ADHD medications and could potentially indicate that your dosage needs adjusted. It's bad for your heart and eyeballs.

If you read the long piece of paper that comes with those medications there is a warning about not consuming them at the same time as other medications. There's a bunch of good reasons for this disclaimer.

[–] janNatan@lemmy.ml 6 points 6 months ago

Every morning headaches can be a sign of sleep apnea. Not saying you have it. Go to a doctor.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

They are not great for your liver. Especially long-term consistent use. You should be taking periodic liver function tests.

[–] dysprosium@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 6 months ago (4 children)

You should be taking periodic liver function tests.

That's not a bad idea......... :(

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[–] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 2 points 6 months ago

You take Ritalin with coffee? I have to space my Ritalin out from my morning coffee by at least an hour, or else I get horrible headaches which can last hours.

[–] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Acetaminophen and caffeine are often included together in "extra strength" pain relievers as the caffeine enhances the effects of the acetaminophen. That part at least is perfectly fine. Half ibuprofen half acetaminophen plus caffeine works even better.

[–] Tehdastehdas@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

The liver has different enzymes to break different molecules, so those drugs might all use different ones, not slowing down the breakdown of others. I didn't check. Wikipedia usually tells drug metabolism in detail.

[–] dysprosium@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 6 months ago

Good point. I'll check. Though I'm not sure if that is the only point of relevance. What if the overal 'output' of the liver is still exceeded? Aka it's just working overtime producing those different enzymes.

[–] taaz@biglemmowski.win 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Afaik constant use of paracetamol has most impact on stomach, it does something to the lining.
Or maybe that was ibuprofen?

Not a medical professional either way so

Edit: Root cause aside as people have already told you here, I would try CBD it might help and shouldn't strain the body as much.

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