this post was submitted on 13 May 2025
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This is a stupid argument. Trans women are not too strong for sport, but too strong for women's sport.
What's the point of segregating sports by gender?
If it's a matter of performance then they can break sports into performance classes, no gender segregation needed.
If it's a matter of fairness and making space for women in sports, then trans women deserve not to have to play with the boys just like any other woman.
I don't actually know the real effect of stuff like testosterone in high level sports, but if it's significant, one could argue there should be two or maybe more categories for different amounts, and a category with no limits. Kinda like weight classes in fighting sports but with hormones.
Cis women have testosterone too, and gender testing might exclude them from women's sports just like trans women if they have too much.
Also, most trans women are specifically blocking testosterone, and often have significantly lower levels than cis women.
Yeah but if it's that important to the muscles/effort thing it probably should be the determining factor to segregate athletes in performance-based categories instead of their biological or physical gender
Or, how about we stop trying to protect mens' fragile feelings from being beaten by girls and quit pretending that we can segregate our way to competetive fairness?
I mean, sure. You're acting like this is all my fault when I'm just trying to look at this critically. Do you know how little I actually care about competitive sports?
Is whats being proposed AFAIK but seems it will take a time to catch on. All the while this fuckers keep on doing the same transphobic shit.
Because men outclass women in almost any physical ability, be it strength, speed or endurance. Just look at world records.
Ah yes, let's make sport less accessible by introducing arbitrary limitations. Do we have basketball up to 1.60m height, then up to 1.70m height, then up to 1.80m height and so on? And do we introduce different tiers within those tiers by only having people up to 1.70m and 60kg, then 1.70 and 70kg ...
You CANT split sport into "performance classes", at least not in a way where it would help - men would on average still be in the higher "performance class" and nothing would change.
I know you probably don't want to hear that, but biologically, trans women aren't women. They are still physically superior to cis women. That's why we prefix them with "trans". Even after extensive hormone therapy, trans women still have some advantages over cis women.
Nobody has a problem with trans women in non-physical sports. Nobody would bat an eye if there was a trans women in chess. Nobody would care if there was a trans woman in e-sports (we actually had one years ago in league if I remember correctly). But we can't just abandon fairness for cis women in sport because we want to appease a small number of trans women, and on a physical level (especially before hormone therapy), they still do have an advantage.
You're wrong about the non physical part. The league player was Remilia. She didn't even play for half a year because of harassment. Fide(governing body for chess) also banned trans women from women-only events. There was a fishing tournament recently where a woman refused to compete against a supposedly trans woman.
I have never heard this argument come out of someone who doesn't look like a wet noodle could outclass them in physical ability. It's always a keyboard warrior who hasn't cooked a meal since the Kraft Mac he made in 9th grade when his parents left him alone one evening and wouldn't know what the inside of a gym looks like if it weren't in GTA.
Motherfucker, I knew plenty of cis women who could easily out-class me in physical abilities and I was in the US military
The only people who care what's in the pants of the enlisted person beside them are pieces of shit who don't deserve to be there. Focus on your fucking job, and stop fantasizing about their crotch.
Not once did I ever wonder what a person was assigned at birth while I was in. They wouldn't be there if they couldn't physically do it.
Nobody is lowering qualifications of military personnel because the individual is trans.
Oh dw about that, I do go to the gym more regularly since covid.
Oh, you also don't have to worry about that. I do cook regularly for me and my girlfriend, and mostly healthy stuff, apart from the occasional cream sauce.
Okay, very cool. Doesn't change the fact that men - on average - are physically superior. I also know a few women that could fuck me up, but I know WAY more women that I could fuck up.
You seem to misunderstand me. I never said trans people should not be allowed in the military. I was only arguing against transpeople in SPORTS. Military, the gender should not matter - while I do still think that women are - on average - weaker than men, that should not bar them from serving, because it's not a competition about who's the best, unlike in sports.
If sports are about competing to find out who's the best, then what's the point of segregating sports by gender?
Don't we already? In high school you have freshmen, jv, and varsity sports. There's recreational, amateur, and professional leagues in about every sport. There's weight classes in wrestling and boxing. Just to name a few examples of where we have no problem breaking sport into performance classes.
Where did I suggest that? Are you sure you aren't hallucinating? Aren't you the one demanding an arbitrary limitation on what sort of women are allowed to compete?
I said "performance classes" not "height and weight classes".
Why not? Explain your reasoning for why women wouldn't perform to roughly the same level as everyone else in their performance class. Bonus points if you can manage to avoid sexism or classism in your explanation.
I know you probably don't want to hear this, but the biological differences between cis and trans people are irrelevant. Sports were only segregated because men's precious feelings get hurt when they are bested by women. Forcing trans women to compete against men will cause men to lose to people they don't recognize as men and thereby create more problems than were solved.
Wow...
You should have just admitted you have no idea what you're talking about. Bans on trans women in chess have been a multi-year scandal for the International Chess Federation.
Because abandoning fairness to enforce gender testing that will primarily harm cis women by excluding them from competition for having too much natural testosterone like Caster Semenya is better, right?
Because the entire concept of "performance class" is absolutely stupid. I don't even know how to argue against it because the entire concept is dumb. Sport is about competition, who is the best etc. Your performance class bullshit would kill that off.
Actually, sports were segregated because the average women can't compete with the average man, and a single look into the guiness book of world records would show you that. However, if that's your world view, I'm sorry, no point in arguing. I'll still answer the rest, but that's probably the last thing I'll answer from you.
I am well aware of that, but it shouldn't be. Chess is about intellect, not physical prowess, and women are absolutely on the same level as men.
They don't ... because physical prowess is irrelevant.
Caster Semenya has a condition causing her to have much higher testosterone levels than other women. That has nothing to do with trans people. I do agree that excluding her because of this is unfair.
Anyways, as I've stated above, that's the last thing I'll answer as you don't have any arguments, just feelings and "men bad". Have a good one!
That doesn't disprove my point, but it does prove that you don't have the patience for a civilized argument.
Be sure you tell all the E-Sports people and professional sports players that you think ranked competition is "dumb", lol~. Sounds like you want to mix the amateur and professional leagues too, right?
If that were the case, sports would have always been segregated.
Here in reality, professional baseball was only segregated after Jackie Mitchell struck out Babe Ruth and Lou Gherig at an exhibition game in April 1932. Her contract was voided by the league's commissioner the next day.
The idea that women can't compete with men is a myth that was manufactured to defend fragile male egos.
Let me get this straight, you think that a cis woman who was excluded from sports for high testosterone doesn't have anything to do with the trans women who you want to exclude from sports for having testosterone?
My dude, you're the one demanding the sort of gender testing that resulted in what you yourself acknowledge is unfair exclusion.
The difference is smaller than you might think
Effect of gender affirming hormones on athletic performance in transwomen and transmen: implications for sporting organisations and legislators
That's a massive difference in even amateur sports let alone elite level. That contradicts your point rather than support it.
What? We can use science and data to look at the impacts empirically instead of throwing baseless speculations around???
Who knew?
Yes, that's why I said that many sports have introduced a hormone therapy "minimum", so to speak. Which is fine I guess, depending on the sport. This has to be individually tested.
But allowing trans women into sport without any extensive hormone therapy is straightup unfair.