this post was submitted on 28 Feb 2025
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[–] Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (3 children)

First thing I will point out is there is no known shape of the universe.

[–] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 10 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

If we assume the hubble constant is the same in all directions, the farthest we'd be able to see would be a sphere, dictated by the time light has had to travel to us.

[–] Grimpen@lemmy.ca 7 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

That's what I'm assuming the original diagram is showing, the "Observable Universe" in some sort of radically increasing scale.

[–] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 weeks ago

It'd be interesting to see what a log scale would look like for this. I'll see if I can find one.

Here's one.

Log scale diagram of the observable universe https://pablocarlosbudassi.com/2021/02/atlas-of-universe-is-linear-version-of_15.html

Looks like the image at the top is a bit condensed comparatively.

[–] Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

I'll admit, I'm not deep in astronomy but thats inherently misguided. In a 3d space, observing from a fixed point, all areas that extend past how far we can observe would not be the shape of the universe but just our range of "vision."

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Thus the term "observable universe". Everything beyond our observable universe is being expanded away from us at faster than the speed of light, so nothing outside will ever reach us. Causality is completely and irrevocably severed at those distances so, arguably, anything outside the observable universe is not part of "our" universe.

[–] Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

My point is, it doesn't reveal anything about the nature of the universe only about the limited view we can observe. As far as form goes the form of a sphere is meaningless because it is true of anything in a 3d space that is looking out from a fixed point.

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

As I just explained, it's not really about observation, it's about causation. If two objects can never possibly interact, then are they really in the same universe?

Looking out in space is also looking back in time. Anything (roughly) that is further than we can observe in the microwave background would be further back in time than the beginning of time, and therefore doesn't exist at all in our universe. It's a bit brain bending.

[–] NotLemming@lemm.ee 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

So when you say never, do you mean not in the 'lifetime' of our sun, or?

[–] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Not till the heat death of the universe.

[–] NotLemming@lemm.ee 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I guess I don't trust the human understanding of 'never'. It's more like 'we don't currently believe its possible', which has in the past been unreliable.

[–] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 weeks ago

We'd need to break the speed of light, which isn't possible with our current understanding of physics, but who knows.

[–] Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

I would say yes they are part of the same universe because if you changed your position it would reveal things you didn't see before and mask thing you use to see. Not that that is possible yet, but there are no laws of physics preventing it, only our super short life spans.

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 2 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

That's just it. The laws of physics, at least as far as we understand them, absolutely preclude changing our position in any way that would reveal anything outside our observable universe. Lifespans don't come into it at all. If you lived forever traveling at the speed of light, you would never achieve that change of position.

The cosmic background is the leftover "noise" of the big bang, and we observe it roughly uniformly in every single direction. So where did the big bang occur? Everywhere. Everything that exists is precisely at the center of the universe, right where the big bang happened.

It's all about the concept of spacetime. Spacetime isn't space and time considered together, it's a singular thing that operates by rules that we are ill equiped to comprehend intuitively.

[–] iriyan@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 weeks ago

flat earth on a flat universe, MUFA make-the-universe-flat-again

[–] Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

The laws of physics, at least as far as we understand them, absolutely preclude changing our position in any way that would reveal anything outside our observable universe

I do not agree. I don't believe the laws of physics are the limiting factor.

[–] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The edge of the observable universe is moving away from us faster than the speed of light from our perspective. (Due to space stretching) So we'd need to go faster than the speed of light to catch up.

[–] Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

You could also use a wormhole to travel to different universes. It 'breaks' the speed of light, so all bets are off.

[–] ewigkaiwelo@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Is saddle still the best candidate? Like when you move a circle across a circle you get a torus, and when you move a parabola across parabola you get a "saddle"

[–] MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net 4 points 2 weeks ago

I want a toroidal universe. Just so it can be eaten by an extracosmic Homer Simpson.

[–] jabathekek@sopuli.xyz 4 points 2 weeks ago

obviously the eye of our universe is flat