this post was submitted on 22 Jan 2025
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[–] ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 54 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

I learned recently that Americans do in fact have the right to refuse a pardon.

[–] FirstCircle@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 hours ago

Same. Imagine being her lawyer now, having to argue on her behalf in court that she is guilty and is entitled to prison time. That she has a right to that prison time and to a permanent criminal record.

[–] ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world 13 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (4 children)

~~I might be wrong here, but wouldn't it basically require you to confess the crime?~~

It is not an admission of guilt.

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 113 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

I believe that's true, but that's not why she did it.

"Accepting a pardon would only insult the Capitol police officers, rule of law and, of course, our nation," she said.

"I pleaded guilty because I was guilty, and accepting a pardon also would serve to contribute to their gaslighting and false narrative."

There must always be a path to redemption, and it appears she has chosen to take it.

[–] ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world 27 points 8 hours ago

That's honourable of her and I respect it.

[–] finley@lemm.ee 26 points 8 hours ago

I always give consideration to those who admit they were wrong.

[–] BossDj@lemm.ee 14 points 8 hours ago

I recall a reporter arguing with Joe Arpaio after he was pardoned by Trump. Joe kept saying "I never admitted got" and the reporter repeated "by accepting a pardon, you admit guilt". It went nowhere

[–] Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (2 children)

Not necessarily. You can plead guilty while still asserting innocence, for example the Alford plea. It means the defendant accepts the sentence, but remains adamant that what they did was okay according to their conscience.

In this case tho, the only alternative is to go free despite your wrongdoing, so it might be more of a "Fuck your pardon, orange twat" reaction.

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 7 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

But US SCOTUS ruled that accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt in 1915

[–] ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

Although the Supreme Court's opinion stated that a pardon carries "an imputation of guilt and acceptance of a confession of it," this was part of the Court's dictum for the case. Whether the acceptance of a pardon constitutes an admission of guilt by the recipient is disputed. In Lorance v. Commandant, USDB (2021) the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that "there is no confession and Lorance does not otherwise lose his right to petition for habeas corpus relief for his court-martial conviction and sentence.

That's from the Wikipedia article about the case you're referring to. Note that a dictum from the Supreme Court is influential but not binding as a precedent.

However, that case has to do with a preemptive pardon for a crime that the recipient had not yet been accused of. Pardons for a crime that the recipient is currently being punished for may be different. (If the government wants to remove you from prison, can you refuse to leave?) So may pardons for a crime for which the recipient has already completed his punishment.

[–] zabadoh@ani.social 7 points 5 hours ago

Hahaha, you think precedent actually means anything to SCROTUS.

[–] finley@lemm.ee 1 points 8 hours ago

I know that in New York, you can simply plead “no contest” or “nolo contendre”

[–] glimse@lemmy.world 4 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Accepting a pardon is not an admission of guilt so I don't think refusing one is either. The rest of what she said was a confession, though.

[–] ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world 4 points 7 hours ago

Seems that is true since a couple of years back, at least!

I respect her choice. She seems cool about it.