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Sometimes works of art (paintings, music, film, sculpture, architecture, literature, doesn't matter) are so profoundly influential as to become a part of the fabric of that medium. I think the Godfather is one of those films that inspired an entire generation of filmmakers to weave the special bits into everything they created since.
The problem with watching it now is that the craft of filmmaking has spawned from it and molded around it, and the things that made it special are now mundane. Try to watch Citizen Kane, or 2001 A Space Odyssey, or Seven Samurai, and you'll see every trope and flaw because their impact is no longer unique. But that's not because they weren't amazing films, it's because they have all be copied and modernized and lampooned to death.
With the Godfather, a film buff could talk for hours about the lighting, the symbolism, the mise en scene, the music, and how it was all seminal to half the movies made since. Watching it with virgin eyes, though, and you'll see reflections of Goodfellas and Casino and Scarface and Once Upon a Time in America and The Irishman and A Bronx Tale and Donnie Brasco and New Jack City and Road to Perdition and We Own the Night and The Departed and The Untouchables and probably 50 other movies I can't think of off the top of my head.
You can't help but see it as a relic, a source of inspiration for the movies you saw before and loved. That's why you don't see it the way they did, and why it seems over hyped.
I had this weird sensation when I watched Metropolis. I found myself thinking "ugh every trope and this is hacky as hell" then I remembered: "oh wait, this is the source of all of those things." It made it a lot easier to appreciate.
Not too different from reading Shakespeare, so full of cliches.
That's how Seinfeld is too. Seinfeld pioneered so many things in comedy but if you view it as a relic it seems lame. As a youngin I couldn't understand why anyone thinks it's funny
Fantastic answer.
Also, Citizen Kane was one of my worst watches ever, even in film class.
I watch it every five years or so and still enjoy it.
Absolutely, painfully true.
'The Maltese Falcon' seems like the most cliché ridden movie imaginable. Then you realize this is the movie that created all the cliches.
Was thinking that the other day. I love the Maltese falcon, it's got so many tropes for film noir. Then I remember, and then I recall showing my wife The Matrix and her eye rolling so hard at things that became so popular they were overdone. Didn't expect a laugh at the slow mo bullet scene but it definitely cracks me up now too.
I rewatched this recently, and yeah, all the cliches are there (some rather clumsily filmed even by 40s standards) - but fuck me if Bogie still doesn't blow it out of the water with that performance. I can't think of a single film noir protagonist that matches what he pulled off in that film. He's better here than he is in Casablanca by a long shot imho.
If you liked the movie, try reading 'Red Harvest,' by Dashiell Hammett, the original author. A tough private eye shows up in a corrupt mining town and decides to clean it up by starting a war between the biggest crooks. Now that's an idea that's been redone a few times.
You got a point see? Mah!
*said while hand-rolling a cigarette with one hand
Great write up. 2001 a space odyssey is a great example. The story holds up, but the effects were blown away (with star wars etc being a main example). It's interesting, but not at all a good watch except in the context of film evolution. That said, it changed so much in cinema, storytelling, and more.
Having read the book some time before seeing the movie, I was pretty unimpressed with how much of the story was left out. Most notably the reasons behind Hal going off the rails.
2001 A Space Odyssey is still 100% watchable and just as thought provoking today as it was in the 70s.
And that explains why it was impactful movies in the 70s, but that doesn't explain why it's rated 2nd best movie today. If anything you provided arguments against that.
Because things can be appreciated for their historical relevance. It's like saying that the Sputnik should be forgotten because SpaceX launches 20 satellites with a single rocket every other month. Or that Michelangelo statues are overrated now that we invented 3D printing.
But again, for all it's historical relevance, nobody rates Sputik second best satellite today.
But I would still rate Michaelangelo's David as the best sculpture today.
Edit... Winged Victory though... looking up at it from the base of the stairs...
It's rated highly because the people who do the ratings are familiar with how impactful the movie was. They understand the quality of the film within the context where and when it was created.
If you were to compare a Manet to an AI generated photorealistic version of the same painting, an art buff would prefer the Manet. Someone who lacks the context and background might complain about the brush strokes or the imperfect color blending or the lack of definition in the faces, and say that the AI generated image is "better." That preference does not in any way diminish the quality of Manet's work or the appreciation people have for it.
When discussing art, "best" is always subjective. You're allowed to not like the Godfather. It's not my favorite movie, either, but I enjoy watching it now and again. People who love the film have written many books on why it's their favorite masterpiece. You won't win an argument with them that it's not among the best movies of all time, but then neither will they convince you to appreciate the movie if you didn't enjoy watching it.
not everybody who uses IMDB was born after 9/11.
this isn't a dig at gen-z for being "uncultured" or whatever, just pointing out that a substantial chunk of the population was able to experience the film before it became as "cliche" as it is today.
It's still better than 99% of all movies made in the last 30 years; you just have shit taste.
What you're forgetting completely (like 90% of "movie guys"), is that most people don't care or notice most of what you're talking about. Godfather is fundamentally a boring film. The story is banal, was back then probably too. You can have the best lighting you want, if the story is boring, the movie sucks.
But that's the thing, the story isn't boring.