this post was submitted on 25 Aug 2023
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Living conditions subpar in a country fighting of a brutal invasion & genocide?
Get the fuck outta here.
This was really inevitable, yeah.
Literally every single country on this planet will do this when forced to fight a defensive war.
Civil liberties are fine and well but in wartime that goes out the window real quick regardless of ideological orientation of the government.
Now let's here your opinion on Stalin.
Totalitarian dipshit that ruined communism. Though I am willing to overlook authoritarian wartime measures taken in the defense of the country against the invading nazi germany, because that’s what I just said no?
What’s yours of the Russian agenda? Why must Ukraine surrender its territory to an aggressor in the name of saving lives, and not the Russians get the fuck out to save lives?
Why shouldn’t the people of the region, who really want to be a part of Russia, get to decide?
You’re fine when Texas leaves Mexico to join the US, but not when the Donbas leaves Ukraine to join Russia?
I wish liberals would understand this in the context of communist movements struggling to get out from under global capitalist hegemony and violent dominance. Like, China pushing into the South China Sea is seen as terrible and authoritarian but Taiwan is literally a separatist government from the losers of the civil war protected by the global imperialists who dominated China for well over a century and have encircled China with 600+ military bases and a global torture program, among other things.
I don't think that you fully understand what's happening. This is not Call of Duty. Leave any internal political issues until the end of the war. Right now, you're helping Russia.
So are we just supposed to allow (heck, even support!) Ukraine despite them implementing a system of modern slavery for their people, blocking civilians from fleeing, and forced conscription, some of it even slated to last even beyond the end of the war, because to even criticise it is "helping Russia"? Helping Russia do what, exactly? Look better than Ukraine? That's on Ukraine to be the big boy.
This is not Call of Duty, a war is waged for political reasons, and therefore the politics of it should be laid bare.
Yes, you should support Ukraine. No it's not slavery.
Care to elaborate? AFAIK, forced labour under the threat of harm and no conditions for escape fits very well into most modern definitions of slavery. But go on, why should I support Ukraine despite this?
They are being invaded.
But you don't care about that, you're a tankie who defends genocide.
I don't follow. Yes, they are at war. How does that justify labour conscriptions and banning fleeing? I do care about people not dying and having dignity, you see. But sending teenagers into slaughter or forcing them to work to that same slaughter industry doesn't help anybody. It is basically a self-genocide by the Ukrainian government. No wonder that it started as a war against eastern Ukrainians.
Who here exactly defends genocide when the only thing I want in this war is for the suicidal tactics of the Ukrainian government to pause for a second so that civilians can flee and live better lives elsewhere? But you don't care about that, you're a liberal who will justify every war crime from your favourite North Atlantic countries and their puppet governments, under the guise of empathy.
See, 2 can play that game of ad hominem. Answer the question: "How is this not comparable to a modern slave state?"
Theres also a difference between these actions to defend a far right corrupt regime and some actual democracy
You're excusing the genocide of the separatist regions and making up nonsense about this being ww2 2.0. You're the real genocide denier.
Proving once again you're just a genocide apologist willing to use "genocide" to excuse a genocide.
bro i'm not the one pretending this war is a genocide against Ukrainians
You literally are.
They are not implementing a system of modern slavery, they're protecting their country and fighting for their lives.
I'm quoting again:
Please illuminate me in your wisdom, how banning people from leaving while conscripting them to either fight in the front or forced labour is not a form slavery. Whose lives are being saved by arresting people trying to flee the country?
Don't you get it? People come and go, they live and die but what lasts is lines on maps. The lines on the map are the only thing that matters. If Russia moves the line on the map into Ukraine to cover people that want to live in Russia whats to stop them from moving other lines into other nations where people who speak Russian feel persecuted by their government and nazis?
People over here sound so much like CK2 players that I get flashbacks to the thrashfire Pagan Fury dlc soundtrack. "You don't understand, they're fighting a genocide! Which is why we must conscript and self-genocide the entirety of Ukraine to prevent the separatist half of Ukraine from being genocided by their allies!"
Jesus, you sound psychotic. borderline nationalist. people being forced into slavery for the sake of their countey? for the sake of the donbas? really? would you be a slave for lines on a map?
like, seriously. jews in the Holocaust did hard labor for Germany's lines on the map. is that justified? to save germany from the allies? what is wrong with you?
You're correct but you might wanna check your sarcasm detector lol
holy hell, thank god that was satire. when i saw this post i was just staring open mouthed at my monitor, stunned at how insensitive someone could be. lmao, im pretty dumb for that
and how do you imagine they'll do that exactly? how are they even to begin resolving their political issues when all leftwing parties have been banned, unions are severely restricted, and strikes and protests have been made illegal? even if the allow for free elections again, any post-war government will have to act adhere to the neoliberal repayment programs of the IMF and other foreign actors, meaning further wage cuts, more austerity, more privatization
That's not my business. Ukrainians have showed multiple times over the past 30 years that they know how to deal with bad politicians. Don't try to come up and solve problems that don't exist today. Today the country as at war and not spreading Russian propaganda the least we could do.
but these problems do exist today? that's literally the whole point of the article. and what they're experience today—extreme salary cuts, austerity, longer work days, poorer access to public goods—isn't going to magically go away once the war is over. especially not when every avenue ukrainians have to protests their government is being criminalized
Okay, go ahead, attack the Ukrainian government for having poor living conditions during the war if that makes the most sense to you under given circumstances.
What is your business then exactly? Is it property, or people? You seem to be on the side of property with no regard for the conditions of the people who exist on that property.
It's the Sargon of Akkad tactic of screaming "I don't care!" while inserting themselves into every single conversation. Somehow they seem to think their dumb uninformed opinions are always equally worthy of merit despite doing zero homework. If you look into the thread, you'll notice most people didn't even read the article.
Oh, you think that reading nonsense online makes you smart, worthy and informed? Lol.
Usually, yeah, reading and investigation is the main basis for getting informed. Specially for something so far away. How do you get "informed"? Through sheer willpower and thought?
"It came to me in a dream"
Literally got into a discussion with a Jehovah's witness who said Jesus told them to protest at drag shows in a dream.
I think you don't realize the irony of you saying that
To be honest, I read nonsense only when I get replies from people like you.
Trans communists who like the She-Ra reboot? Oddly specific.
We are many, we will rule the world, there are dozens of us! Dozens!
I meant morons. Other facts about that subject are irrelevant.
Ha, a throwback to my childhood.
"If we don't send thoughtlessy load more people and munitions into the meat grinder right this minute, then the terrorists win!"
Ukraine has never asked to send people. You have no idea what's happening and why, do you?
Lol we've have a news megathread every day since the SMO started full of military, economic, historical and sociological analysis regarding every new develpoment in the region. You should stop in sometime, you might learn something.
Like how the US and it's vassals are shoving Ukranians into the meat grinder by torpedoing every round of negotiations while buying up Ukranian land and assets at rock bottom prices. But hey, I don't expect you forced conscription and cluster bomb enthusiasts to be well-versed in any situation when it's so much easier to just vibe out and cheer for Our Team.
This war is a result of Ukraine's internal political issues, namely it's insistence on claims to territories that don't want to be a part of Ukraine.
oh my god you're one of those idiots