Warl0k3

joined 2 years ago
[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (1 children)

Then why don’t we use any Indian names for the very many famines in India due to British occupation?

Do you mean dramatized names like the Great Bengal Famine? The Bengali name is "Chiẏāttōrēr mônbôntôr (lit. 'Famine of '76')", which is pretty vague given how many famines have happened in the world. Probably it merits the fancier name because it was the first one under british rule. Or did you perhaps mean the Doji bara / Skull Famine (bengali: lit 'many skulls'), which you know, not very dramatic at all and a pretty fair example of us using the indian name.

Demographic extrapolations and comparative economics.

Hi! I'm a data scientist specializing in public health data modeling and I'm sorry, that was a little mean of me to bait you like that, it's a trick question: proving lives saved is the classic example of bad statistics and proving negatives. The assumptions required to make a definite statement about lives saved in a historical event are easy to make, but are necessarily so restrictive that they render any conclusions valueless unless you have definite conditions within a narrow time scope (like in a vaccine rollout or cholera outbreak). That's why meaningless phrases like "Demographic extrapolations and comparative economics" are such an easy thing to parrot - you're just saying "and then we do statistics, QED" without having to engage with the actual difficult part (the math).

Does comparative economics correlate to deaths? Sure! It correlates to just about everything you could ever want! The most famous example is the hemline index, which has spurred over a century of debate as to the actual causal connections (and if the theory itself even has merit). But proving that causal link to lives saved? Now that's a damn tricky problem, and some really promising methodology has only recently arisen from the management of ventilator shortages during covid in the US (and it's still being developed!) I highly recommend looking into it, it's a fascinating field of research right now.

Edit: Wow, you know what, I'm gonna just point to the entire sections of the wikipedia article you got that graphic from titled "Population Decline" and "Fertility and natalist policies" to address the population decline, instead of just redundantly addressing all the... uh... rigorously cited claims you just laid out.

[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (3 children)

And why exactly did that term stick in the west, only transliterated as Holodomor instead?

Because that's the name it was given by the Ukranian peoples that survived it? I'm not sure what your point is here when you agree that it's a transliteration of the name.

ngram graph

It's not exactly a disputed fact that things like the Holodomor didn't gain much traction in western literature until after the fall of the soviet union, because that's when western literature was able to access it.

Discussion of the Holodomor became possible as part of the Soviet glasnost ("openness") policy in the 1980s. In Ukraine, the first official use of the word "famine" was in a December 1987 speech by Volodymyr Shcherbytskyi

Add to it that the soviets violently suppressed reporting on it within the USSR, which you can even see reflected in that graph, explains the lack of occurrence in non-western works. That seems, you know, pretty gosh dang basic.

You're seriously arguing the pretty straightforward etymology of this word is some kind of deeply political conspiracy, to deflect from the openly manufactured nature and your weird stalinist apologist thing you've got going on where millions of "lives saved" (pop quiz: how do you measure that?) somehow outweighs millions of deaths. Maybe there is a similarity with the term "holocaust", which would seem kinda fair given the scale of the killing. But you know, there isn't. Like there provably isn't, it was a term coined from the original meaning of the word "holocaust" before "The Holocaust" even happened.

Just come on with this. They share a similar root.

[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (5 children)

inappropriately label “Holodomor” (scary word for a specific famine to make it sound like holocaust, I wonder if you have any other special scary words for other famines)

The word was used in print in the 1930s in Ukrainian diaspora publications in Czechoslovakia as Haladamor

Try again, buddy.

edit: Also, the Holodomor specifically refers to the famine within Ukraine which killed millions, while the "Soviet Famine of the collectivization" (a specific name I can find referenced nowhere else, is that a translation?) is (evidently) the broad famine impacting the USSR of which the Holodomor was a part.

[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

Lysenko’s politically derived pseudoscience that started with ideology instead of evidence combined with Stalinist/Maoist paranoia and conflation of scientific dissent with rebellion and threats to the state created the famines from what would have been shortages during the restructuring.

Yes, exactly. Although I take quite a bit of issue with your depiction of Lysenkoism (you're presenting it as much broader in scope than even wikipedia claims and certainly more generally impactful to the system than any of the academic sources I've read considers it having been) I don't think that you're overall wrong by any stretch! Countries are complex systems, which again has been my entire point, and I'm glad we agree on that.

[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

Noooo! The third option!

[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 5 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (2 children)

(Pretty sure the joke is about an ICE train, as in trumps thugs, instead of ICE as in internal combustion engine)

[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 11 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

Hopefully just activate ILS. There's no way you wouldn't be diverted to an airport that doesn't require a Cat III landing, even a IIIA is stupid dangerous for a trained crew. iirc you only have a 1-2 second correction window for any Cat III landing where the ILS cuts out, compared to something like 8-10 for a Cat I (which is plenty of time for an amateur that's been coached on the procedure to do a missed landing then give it back to the autopilot, that's super easy). Plus the number of airports that can even do just a Cat II at least used to be pretty low (150 in the US?), and Cat III rated airports are even fewer (I dont think there's double digits that can do a IIIB, and afaik there's still none in the world rated for IIIC...)

(edit: came off more aggro than I meant, changed wording so I sound like less of a dick!)

[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 11 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

Set autopilot to fly approach -> activate ILS. Besides the radio there's essentially no other controls you would need to touch in an emergency (landing gear (if not handled by ILS), engine stop, autobrake, parking brake, door controls), and it's very easy (by design) for the tower to talk you through the settings to do that. This meme is more than enough to familiarize you with the basic control locations in case you need to make an adjustment based off tower instructions, but at the same time buddy chill TF out it's a meme.

(note that realistically it would never be you-a-passenger doing this, it'd be one of the cabin crew)

[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)
[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

So your argument is that it wasn't just Lysenkoism, but the political situation at the time which exacerbated the faults of Lysenkoism and lead to conditions allowing for those famines?

Which has incidentally been my entire point this whole time?

^edit:^ ^clarity^

[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

The only actual requirement is to be 35, which...

... ew.

[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)

Sure, it was a pervasive piece of reasoning that existed in a system which would kill you if you tried to criticize the pseudoscience du jour. It had a large influence in soviet culture, yep, but it was absolutely not the sole driving force behind things like the Holodomor, or the other many famines.

 
 
 
 
 
 
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