Democratic voters need to find their balls and brains to deny the establishment their choice instead of reluctantly getting behind the MSNBC boosted candidate. The best thing we can do for the Democratic party at this moment is criticize the fuck our of establishment bullshit.
Tinidril
joined 2 years ago
Ah, got it. I was reading it the other way around. My bad.
Um, what? I find your reply incoherent and your link doesn't work.
My point was that the relevance of Reagan and Biden go hand in hand. If one is relevant then they both are. We either examine the past and learn from it, or we continue to repeat the mistakes.
Now we're down to the ad hominem. I'll just point out that you got there first and leave it at that.
Correct, which is why the awful quality of our media and the prevalence of propaganda in our discourse should be a much bigger deal than it is considered as.
Agreed, with a note that the Democratic establishment and their propaganda arm at MSNBC are is as guilty as anyone of causing people to quit caring about facts. Just look at the circus that is the Democratic primary process if you need evidence of that.
instead of shitting on Biden for some random reason
I'm still not shitting on Biden, and I've given you my non-random reason. If the Democrats don't get real about addressing the absolutely justified distrust Americans have in the Democratic party, we are all cooked.
very loosely connected bit of policy that impacted student loans was a deliberate lie.
Nope.
Okay so you have literally no idea whether he even ever expressed any specific approval for the part of the bill
Dude. I've put up with your demands for evidence and proved you wrong several times. I'm not your fucking man servant and I figure at this point it's your turn to prove that he opposed that particular section of a bill he championed through congress. The bill did what I said it did, and he backed it. If you think he opposed that section, then I think it's on you to show that me made some effort to fix it.
But you definitely know he’s most responsible. Out of everyone.
Three prominent Democrats pushed the bill through congress, Joe Biden, Chris Dodd, and Hillary Clinton. Of the three, only Joe Biden ended up voting for the final bill. That's about as much of a smoking gun as your ever going to find.
Got it. Where did he come out specifically in favor of this one specific provision?
Let me turn it around since the opposing claim is that he worked with Republicans to soften the bill. Where did he come out specifically against it? Finding clips of Biden back then is near impossible with all the results that come up from his presidency, and I honestly don't care enough to keep digging.
Yeah, I’ll make sure not to go back in time to 2005 and elect him for anything back then.
Is he running for something now? I hope you are aware that we aren't talking about a current or future Democratic candidate for anything.
Now they’re getting significantly better.
Biden was among the most conservative Democrats in congress. As president he was one of the furthest left office holders in the party. Biden got way better in the context of the Democrats. I don't see Democrats as a group getting better at all, with rare exceptions that the establishment does everything they can manage to suppress. You Don't Hate The Democrats Enough.
No, that was reality. That’s what happened. The promises were twice as big, but the reality was still enormous.
Find me where Biden promised to raise the corporate tax rate back to where it was before Trump (35%) or higher and I'll eat my words. I'm a little confused because the rate is still sitting where Trump put it (21%) and I thought we were talking about Biden's promises for his 2024 administration. What do you mean by "happened"?
“Biden caused inflation to go up” was a narrative
Well yeah, but it was a narrative for Trump, not Biden. Also, the narratives I'm talking about are the ones going forward. I think you and I can be in perfect agreement that Biden did a lot that he could point to that should have made him more electable. I'm just saying that isn't how most voters make their decisions. It absolutely should be, and if voters were that thoughtful then Democrats could probably win every election by pointing out that they are better than Republicans, even if it were only marginally. Campaigns need a dragon and a hero they believe can slay it. Corporate tax rates that are too low are never going to get the traction that "tranies" trying to shower with your kids will. The (perhaps theatrical) language of "taking on corporate criminals" might seem irrelevant, but it's not.
Most working people made way more even after adjusting for inflation after Biden was done than before.
I really think we are failing to connect here. I absolutely agree that Biden was better than Trump in a myriad of ways. My issue of choice would be the NLRB and the great work they did in making it so much easier to start a union, and so much harder for corporations to union-bust. The problem isn't what Biden did. I was always going to want him to go further than he did, but he far exceeded my predictions and in the world I want to live in he would have beaten Trump easily. (It's a little late in the conversation to mention this, but I'm considering the Harris campaign to be a continuation of the Biden campaign to avoid getting lost in the weeds.)
one singular Democrat broke with that, and here you are shitting on him.
I disagree that this is what I'm doing. Also, as much of a positive surprise his presidency was, his rhetoric did not break with that. Even in policy, the flow of money from the bottom to the top was barely slowed.
I couldn’t even find anything in it about student loans.
See "Sec. 220. Nondischargeability of certain educational benefits and loans." Also, the following is from the Wikipedia entry on BAPCPA.
BAPCPA amended § 523(a)(8) to broaden the types of educational ("student") loans that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy absent proof of "undue hardship." The nature of the lender is no longer relevant. Thus, even loans from "for-profit" or "non-governmental" entities are not dischargeable.
Also, you know what Biden is responsible for?
Yes I do, and I spoke to it in another thread. President Biden was a huge improvement over Senator Biden, and I give him full credit for that.
Yes, it was the 2005 bill, and Biden was one of the few Democratic Senators to support and ultimately vote for the bill. He also was also one of the most powerful members of the Senate, not a follower being pulled along.
“Biden was one of the most powerful people who could have said no, who could have changed this. Instead he used his leadership role to limit the ability of other Democrats who had concerns and who wanted the bill softened,” said Melissa Jacoby, a law professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill specializing in bankruptcy.
Biden did make claims that it was a Republican bill that he tried to soften, but nothing in the story of the bill's authorship or passage supported that. In fact, he was a champion of it's passage from the start, and had been so twice before when it had been previously proposed. He also helped write a failed bill way back in 1978 that specifically disallowed bankruptcy for student loans.
Biden and Warren debating 2005 bill
Biden also received more campaign donations from the credit industry than any other Senator at the time, and his son Hunter was employed as a $100k/year "consultant" at MBNA.
I'm feeling deja vu from 2016. Hopefully the primary electorate has learned something that the establishment has not.