Because it's ideologically useful for liberals to not:
this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2025
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Asklemmy
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thx for the read!
You know that Watergate, Iran-Contra, and Iraq are settled history at this point, right? They are no longer contested by serious people. A better example might be the JFK assassination & cover-up, or better yet, ongoing events like the astroturfed Mexican “gen-z revolution” or the fake Venezuelan “narco-terrorism” the US made up in an attempt to overthrow president Maduro.
Where are good, constructive places to discuss these issues without falling into unproductive conspiracy spirals?
The fediverse, which for the most part currently isn’t run by corporations or by NGOs funded by governments or corporations. There are also a few independent, non-corporate, non-NGO investigative reporting sources. I can name a few good ones if you like. People on lemmy.ml often post articles from them.
Wait, what is this about who beat the Nazi's?
People now think the Americans beat the nazis due to all the Hollywood propaganda.
Do they? I mean, I'm sure some people do. But some people also think shoving chili peppers up their anus is pleasurable. We don't go around saying "People now think shoving hot peppers up their ass feels good.", because while it's technically true, it's disingenuous considering how few people fit into that category.
Ok, but who did?
The Red Army was responsible for 80-90% of the war effort in Europe against the Nazis, the eastern front absolutely eclipsed the western front.
This graph definitively answers the question, “Does propaganda really work?”
Thanks I had never questioned that fact myself until I saw your post. I also did some googling and found the same thing on multiple articles and not only find it fascinating but also breain dead obvious.
But you can bet we are going to keep discussing Tian'anmen Square instead of Pinochet’s dictatorship, Jeju Island massacre, Indonesian anti-communist purge, etc. It's as if the average person believes anything so long as mainstream media says it.
Maybe I'm reading wrong, but your comment seems to imply that Tian'anmen Square was mainstream media lies?
There was political violence around Tian'anmen square on june 4th 1989 yes. This cannot be denied and no one is denying this, not even the CPC. The narrative around that political violence that we hear in the west is however, riddled with lies and intentional distortion for the purpose of propaganda. Here is a great video on the subject that is fully sourced if you are interested. Some of the source links are unfortunately 404s now, I'll see if I can find the articles referenced and make a followup comment.
Edit: I have unfortunately found zero archives of the missing articles and my sleuthing skills are limited to searching the only 2 archive sites I know rn.
I did however find the wikileaks info that the telegraph article discusses
Yes Tiannenmen is pretty lied together. https://youtu.be/IqxU5RdI88M
Most USians believe there’s no censorship here while this video keeps getting removed.
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What's stopping a re-examination of historical cover-ups? I think you answer your own question when you say: where's a good place to discuss this without going into conspiracy spirals? I mean that any time topics like this come up, people who are sincerely interested have to constantly militate against the "conspiracy theory" stigma. If you're hit with that label, you're persona non grata in academia, news media, and mainstream accounts on social media. That's what stops people. The places to discuss conspiracy adjacent topics would be alternative platforms like this, until news media slowly come around on accepting anomalies many years after the fact: Jack Ruby did have mob ties; the Saudis did seem to fund hijackers, etc.
Because that's not how people think. Not anyone.
You can study history, and if you do it right you'll see how stupid and individually directed most things are. It's all conspiracies, that's how the world has worked for millennia
One realization doesn't free your mind and make you a scholar... That's just not how humans work
Wutno. Humans are not genetically doomed to being stupid. They can learn to think analytically, they can learn about known biases and how to mitigate them. They can learn historical materialism.
No, humans can't, scholars can. Most humans could learn historical materialism to the level they could pass a course on it, but the vast majority can't apply this type of analytical lens in practice.
It's a matter of disposition, the ability to look at a situation from multiple angles and question your beliefs about it isn't something that can be taught, only learned. You can walk someone through it step by step over and over, even train them to go through a process when prompted, but without a certain disposition they'll never actually use this ability without promoting
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