this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2025
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[–] SwitchyandWitchy@hexbear.net 45 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Modern war is dedicated by production capacity and technological mastery, not by individual valor

Where do they get the impression that the US has what takes in terms of individual valor either? We haven't fought a war against a near peer with our own troops since WW2. US soldiers can be bloodthirsty and cruel, but where have they had valor? Didn't American troops run from the bloodshed in Ukraine with their tails between their legs or did my memory make that up? (I'm actually seriously asking that question as I don't remember if I read that in an article with sources or just a comment here sometime.)

Korea, Vietnam, and Cuba all showed communist soldiers fighting with more valor against a technologically and economically more powerful USA.

I'm sorry this is off topic but that implication really fucking pisses me off.

[–] FlakesBongler@hexbear.net 33 points 2 days ago (1 children)

No, early on there was a lot of US volunteers getting rocked because they were expecting to have a similar situation to fighting an insurgent force in Afghanistan or Iraq

But Ukraine didn't provide proper air or artillery support and basically used them as meat shields against the Russians, who did have those things

Hence the untimely end of the 1st Armored Reddit Brigade

[–] Outdoor_Catgirl@hexbear.net 29 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Did they even get into combat? I thought the barracks ate a cruise missile because they posted the location online.

[–] FlakesBongler@hexbear.net 29 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

There were multiple incidents of this

Veteran volunteers were used as irregulars in the fields, they got their shit rocked and one literally hoofed it out of Ukraine on foot because he was scared to get sent back into combat

The 1st Armored Reddit Brigade were all in a base that got attacked because they wouldn't stop posting

The cruise missile happened to another group of volunteers who wouldn't stop posting

It's kind of funny that they don't learn

[–] coolusername@hexbear.net 23 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

American mercs? a lot have died in ukraine. there's a telegram channel dedicated to tracking mercs in Ukraine
the subreddit volunteersforukraine has probably gotten quite a lot of people killed

[–] Outdoor_Catgirl@hexbear.net 15 points 2 days ago

I was talking about the reddit brigade specifically

[–] UmmmCheckPlease@hexbear.net 16 points 2 days ago (1 children)

individual valor

Oh look a cushy ass conservative “historian” glorifying sending the domestic proletariat to die trying to kill their counterparts abroad all so the international bourgeoise can profit and repress ideologies that would counter their hegemony.

Even better to refer to “individual valor” when prefacing an article about someone denounced by their own mother.

You are an abuser of women — that is the ugly truth and I have no respect for any man that belittles, lies, cheats, sleeps around, and uses women for his own power and ego. You are that man (and have been for years). Hegseth's mother in email to her son in April 2018

Individual valor? The military doesn’t give a shit about valor, the US doesn’t give a shit about valor; they give a shit about treats flowing and need your family members blood to prime the pump. As they say in the “Fixin’ to die rag”

Come on mothers throughout the land

Pack your boys off to Vietnam

Come on fathers, and don't hesitate

To send your sons off before it's too late

And you can be the first ones in your block

To have your boy come home in a box

Lather rinse repeat. Don’t worry, wheat berry, about growing in the sun, uncle sams got a mill for you whether you like it or not, and when you’re ground to flour with your friends and “enemies”, you can take comfort in knowing you feed the rich.

[–] UmmmCheckPlease@hexbear.net 14 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Also if we’re talking individual valor, my grandfather was conscripted to Korea, was in combat, but upon returning all we ever heard was that he was a “clerk”. No bullshit talk of valor, flags flown, uniforms or medals displayed, and the only picture I’ve ever seen of it is of a few Korean boys holding up the chocolate bars he’d given them. The closest thing to a parade he was in was krackkkers throwing bottles when he marched with Father Groppi.

The only time I saw him mad was when he saw me playing soldier; and decades later I recall it didn’t feel like anger but the most profound sadness and disappointment I’ve felt - in that we might perpetuate violence.

Fuck any scum who glorify war or perpetuate it.

I don't hear much talk of valor in war from those who have been in it. Many veterans understand their role in society as expendables in the battle to make the line go up and to maintain hegemony, and either buy into it as an ontological good to support that cause, or understand their crimes against the humanity of the world. And they’re both hit with americas blowback, because capital doesn’t give a shit about war or dead soldiers unless they make a buck from either, and liberal “anti-war” movements don’t care about war they just want to consume without guilt, and disregard the blood that greases the skids.

What’s an “honorable™️” way out of poverty in the US? Join the military. What’s an dishonorable way into poverty in the US? Failing to die abroad like a “good ™️” soldier. In the US a veteran is just a sunk cost, and a risk to exposing the mask of valor for the lie it is. A dead soldier is the blank slate upon which Uncle Sam signs up the next generation.

Capitalism wants us all dead, and will profit as long as it takes to make that happen.

[–] infuziSporg@hexbear.net 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

TBH the military isn't that great of an option economically. It allows for a little bit of a distraction from the immediate conditions, an opportunity to travel, a sense of purpose, and a promise (read: lie) that it will give them an advantage.

Anecdotally, I've met a few veterans who completed 1 tour and then decided to go to college because there was nothing much available for them, and a few more who picked up substance abuse and other bad habits from their enlistment, or were just floundering. I don't know the exact figures but I would suppose that for each 1 returning veteran success story, there are 8 veterans barely getting by working in dead-end jobs, and 1 veteran either homeless or institutionalized or prematurely dead.

The graphic phrase

"suck-start a shotgun"

is one I've only heard from ex-military personnel.

[–] UmmmCheckPlease@hexbear.net 4 points 2 days ago

Yeah I’m the first generation of my family to go to college instead of the military, so lots of veterans in my family. Mostly because they were drafted, or some had unexpected kids in their early years (or trouble with the law, etc) and it was the “best option”. No officers in the family, so they’ve all received the shit end of the stick, and that’s greatly tempered most jingoism. I’ve not met a “proud soldier” in my family. But I believe there’s a strong line of audhd that runs through it that the state has greatly benefited from.

The wwii grandpa, who lied about his age to enlist at 15 had departed to signal school shortly before his shipmates mostly died in Pearl Harbor, was probably the closest to being “proud” of his time in the military (and idk how much of his background is even true lol). After that he deployed with operation torch, then the family story is he was in the “state department” (OSS), and remained in north africa where he had met my grandma, and covertly supported the Moroccan independence effort (my dad recalls playing with Mohammad V’s children). And after all of that, moved back to Appalachia to take over the small family farm. He and my grandma are buried on the farm in the “family plot”, but had to sell the rest of it to pay for medical bills.

Others in the family include my cousin (only survivor of an ied - (was kind of an asshole before and it didn’t help)), half brothers (ones spouse left for his CO, ones stepson took his life), and my father (during the end of the vietnam war, so he lucked out and never deployed outside of the US, but still managed to get COPD/asthma from being a mechanic).

Similar to everything else in America unless you’re of a wealthy, West Point dynasty, the most charitable thing Uncle Sam will give you is a ditch to die in

[–] SexUnderSocialism@hexbear.net 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

You could also just not wage war. Imagine that.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago

The US has been at war for all 94% of its existence, it's basically national identity.

[–] ClimateStalin@hexbear.net 45 points 2 days ago (1 children)

God it’ll be so good to get to retire in Chinese-Occupied North America

[–] FlakesBongler@hexbear.net 34 points 2 days ago (1 children)

God i can't wait to ride a train again

[–] SwitchyandWitchy@hexbear.net 19 points 2 days ago

This time I'll be working on the railroad instead of exploited Chinese immigrants running from the imperialist opium wars.

[–] sexywheat@hexbear.net 23 points 2 days ago
[–] jackmaoist@hexbear.net 33 points 2 days ago

Can't wait for balkanisation arc and the millenia of humiliation

[–] PKMKII@hexbear.net 27 points 2 days ago
[–] MarmiteLover123@hexbear.net 16 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (4 children)

Modern wars aren't even decided by that, they're decided by who gets air superiority first. Everything works from that point onwards. Which is why the US and China are spending fortunes on stealth aircraft, power projection, and area/access denial capabilities.

Whose are better, the US or China? I don't know, and don't want to find out... Finding out will involve large scale high tech warfare on a scale not seen since the Gulf war, and mass casualties on both sides.

[–] senseamidmadness@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 2 days ago

Air superiority is impossible to achieve and maintain without logistics.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Russia very clearly has air superiority in Ukraine, the war is in its fourth year now.

[–] MarmiteLover123@hexbear.net 9 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Russia doesn't have a high degree of air superiority or air supremacy over Ukraine. Russian aircraft don't cross the forward line of own troops, and haven't in years, which is why they use cruise missiles, one way attack drones and ballistic missiles for attacks deeper into Ukrainian territory. And glide bombs launched 40+ km behind their forward line of own troops for air support. When Russia had air supremacy in Mariopul, they brought in the Tu-22M3 Backfire bombers to bomb Mariopul. When Russia gained air supremacy over Kursk this year just before Ukraine lost it, they had attack helicopters, close air support aircraft like the Su-25, and larger UCAVs bombing all of Kursk that Ukraine held at the time. If Tu-22M3 Backfire bombers flew over Kiev every night, Ukraine would've surrendered years ago.

If you mean the Russian air force is superior to the Ukrainian air force in numbers and equipment, and thus they have air superiority, then yes that's correct. But I don't think anyone is arguing against that. Yes Russia is superior there, but they can't translate that into flying deeper into Ukrainian territory, Ukraine still controls the airspace behind the front lines thanks to the area/access denial enabled by their air defence network and defensive counter air missions by the Ukrainian Air Force, which has almost completely transitioned to F-16AM/BM aircraft (Soviet era airframes and the few French Mirages only make up 20% of sorties now). Russian offensive counter air and suppression of enemy air defence missions are not, at this stage of the war, inflicting significant enough losses to meaningfully degrade Ukraine's area/access denial to aircraft. In the beginning of the war Russia inflicted large losses on Ukraine air defence and fighter aircraft, but were unable to translate that into deep strike missions.

A few weeks (or months) ago Ukraine even flew an An-124 cargo plane out of Kiev. If Russia had a high degree of air superiority, they would've shot it down. They didn't.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 days ago

Russian aircraft don't cross forward because Russia's strategy is to use long range missiles and drones to penetrate deep into Ukraine. Having air superiority doesn't mean flying aircraft in, it means having control over the airspace which Russia does. Ukraine has practically no air force left to speak of, and they are entirely unable to stop Russians hitting deep inside Ukraine with impunity. Russia has been holding back from bombing civilian areas into the ground entirely as a choice as opposed to lack of capability to do so. Saying Russia doesn't have air superiority because they don't shoot down every plane that flies over Ukraine is a bit silly.

[–] thethirdgracchi@hexbear.net 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

If you want to be pedantic about it, I think @MarmiteLover123@hexbear.net means air supremacy, which Russia does not have. For instance, during the Israel-Iran war Israel had air superiority over all of Iran, in that they were not under threat and could operate mostly, but only had supremacy over the western part of Iran, where they could conduct deep strikes and totally rule the skies and do anything with almost no resistance whatsoever in the air. This same situation happened in Lebanon and Gaza (obviously). Russia does not have supremacy over Ukraine, and does not conduct deep airstrikes. All of the strikes carried out in western Ukraine are by cruise missiles or missiles launched via aircraft far outside the range of Ukranian air defenses. I think Russia could gain air supremacy over Ukraine, but they don't want to pay that price right now because it'd be costly in terms of aircraft.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

No, Russia very much does have air supremacy over Ukraine. Russia literally conducts strikes all over Ukraine with impunity on pretty much daily basis right now. While jets only operate around the front. Russian strategic bombers fire missiles all the way into western Ukraine. Air supremacy doesn't mean that you're flying jets into western Ukraine. It means you have dominance of the sky which Russia does. Ukraine effectively has no air force to speak of at this point, and they are unable to intercept Russian strikes. There is no logical reason why Russia would try to fly aircraft deep into Ukraine either. Russian approach has always been to launch missiles from long range. It's a different doctrine from the one US uses where they try to fly stealth bombers deep into enemy territory.

[–] thethirdgracchi@hexbear.net 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Nah Russia would do that too if they could. That's the strategy they pursued in Syria, and it's what they did in Kursk. Close air support is always really helpful. Plus, if Russia really had air supremacy and total control of the skies, they'd be able to take out Ukraine's missile launchers before they get missiles in the air (like Israel was doing to Iran in the western part of Iran during the war). Ukraine still has vast capability to strike Russia through the air; you're right their air force doesn't exist, but their air defenses and ability to still operate with relative safety in Western Ukraine shows Russia doesn't have total control of the skies.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Russia would obviously not carpet bomb large civilian areas because they need a stable Ukraine after the war. Meanwhile, there's zero evidence that I'm aware of that any large scale bombing campaigns were done in Kursk or that it was the decisive factor there. Even western media openly admits now that Ukraine isn't able to intercept something like 90% of Russian missiles. Western Ukraine is being hammered on daily basis right now.

[–] thethirdgracchi@hexbear.net 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Missiles do not equal air superiority. Iran was able to lob dozens of missiles at Israel and achieved a good level of hits, even with Israel's advanced missile defense systems. Under no circumstances did they have anything approaching air superiority over the skies of Israel. There's a difference between carpet bombing large civilian areas and surgical strikes, but regardless Russia is currently not able to do either in Ukraine even if they wanted to. I don't think this is due to lack of capability; if Russia wanted to, they could achieve air supremacy over Ukraine and bomb at will. I don't think they're willing to pay the price to establish that because they've calculated they can win without it, which I tend to agree with.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Yes, being able to launch missiles and drones on daily basis with vast majority of them hitting their targets while the enemy is not able to do the same in response is literally the definition of having air superiority.

but regardless Russia is currently not able to do either in Ukraine even if they wanted to

I'm not sure where you get this notion given that Russia is hitting precision targets every day. That's why Ukrainian energy grid is collapsing as we speak. This is what air superiority looks like

[–] refolde@hexbear.net 9 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Is this implying that what I've been hearing about logistics is old shit and it's really air superiority that matters most nowadays?

[–] mayo_cider@hexbear.net 16 points 2 days ago

Everything builds on logistics, air forces are probably the most resource intensive part of warfare in terms of both offence and defence

[–] MarmiteLover123@hexbear.net 13 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

No, logistics is still very important. Especially for the air force, in fact it's probably most important for the air force.

[–] BabyTurtles@hexbear.net 6 points 2 days ago

I mean, let the US have air superiority long enough and I'll threaten to airstrike itself.

[–] InternetLefty@hexbear.net 17 points 2 days ago

Well it's a lot better than if they WON a war with China, I'd say

[–] dragongloss@hexbear.net 12 points 2 days ago
[–] adultswim_antifa@hexbear.net 7 points 2 days ago

住手!别开枪!我不效忠美国!

[–] sewer_rat_420@hexbear.net 7 points 2 days ago

Pivot away from Asia.