Too bad we don't have the know how or the capacity or resources to build our own EVs.
Oh wait...
It's too bad nobody had the foresight to build a Canadian EV for everyone.
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Too bad we don't have the know how or the capacity or resources to build our own EVs.
Oh wait...
It's too bad nobody had the foresight to build a Canadian EV for everyone.
Can you imagine if we cured our Thatcherite brainworms and started doing what the private sector refuses to do with crown corporations again?
Right??? Fuck man.. the things we could achieve.
Rage vibrates in IREQ
Sodium battery technology is the future, and is still a nascent technology at industrial scale. It doesn't pollute much to make 'em, either. Canada has the highest educated population in the world, per capita. I'd love to see a big plan from Carney's government to offer subsidies for massive sodium-battery storage facilities (and home-based energy storage, for that matter), so long as the batteries are made in Canada (or something like that).
Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems like a brilliant industry to try to get into. They operate effectively *down to –40°C, too, so they could actually work in cars for Canadian winters, or for in-garage home energy storage.
The tiny part of the country in Ontario, where American companies employ Canadians to make vehicles primarily for sale in the USA it seems, should never have been allowed to lobby for protectionist tariffs, thus blocking access to cheaper EVs for the entire country. At the very least, they should've HAD A PRODUCT that we could all buy instead, that was fully Canadian from a Canadian owned company. The tariffs that were put in place were uncalled for, and largely about Ford bending over for big American businesses. It'd be like saying no one in eastern Canada is allowed to import lumber from outside the country, cause BC has softwood lumber disputes with the US -- except even that isn't quite the same, as BC could provide lumber to other provinces. Ontario got this giant tariff blockade in place, offering nothing. Government shouldn't elevate the interests of a small minority, especially one with foreign corporate owners, over the interests of the broader country.
One of the themes in Doug Fords own Anti-Tariff ad that's caused Trump to get all pissy, is that Government shouldn't be artificially protecting industries with tariffs -- innovation requires competition. We've seen countless stories where US Car CEOs admit China and Asia in general has 'beaten' them in innovating in this space. The auto tariffs are exactly the kind of tariff that Ford is trying to make a case are 'bad' with his ad.
If GM and them don't want to build EVs in Canada, have a crown corp or some other investment group pick up the factory space and set about getting a fully Canadian made EV, that can be provided to Canadians for a price competitive with foreign EVs -- or at least in the same general ball park. It'd seem sensible, though I don't know the specific requirements, that if the USA is currently ditching EVs, that these corporations may aswell move that whole production line up to Canada and/or Mexico. And if they don't want to, or if they want to just 'shut down' plants and fire people... well, that's a lot of industrial space, and trained workers, needing work. So put em to work.
As someone who works in manufacturing, I can confidently tell you that the idea that the only reason to place tariffs on cheap foreign goods, is solely to appease the US, is garbage. Canada has been trying to get its own EV industry moving for years now, and has made a rather significant investment in domestic manufacturing capabilities. Allowing China to flood the market with cheap products, undermines that investment before its even had a chance to mature.
One of the primary reasons why Canada's EV production has been so slow to grow, is largely because the companies that we've been investing in, are US based. US policy on EV's tends to swing wildly back and forth, depending on whose in office. And the expectation has been that "if" Trump won the election, then all that investment would come to nothing...so they held back on development, until the 2024 election was over. Now, there is no real commitment to continue, due to tariffs and Trump's general disdain for green technologies.
But that does not mean that Canada should follow that trend and turn to China to suplly that technology. Canadian companies are more than capable of filling that role, with or without US support. Lifting those tariffs on Chinese products, will simply be trading one superpower dominating our domestic production, to another. What we should be doing is shifting that investment to local manufacturers in order to build our own supply chains, that are not dependent on any foreign influence. It is not a quick fix, and it will cost taxpayers more in terms of investment...but it will ensure that Canada has the potential to become a leader in EV technology, not just another customer for someone else.
I fully agree.
In addition, we must not forget that there is massive slave-like labour in Chinese supply chains - within China as well as abroad. As I posted in another thread, Brazil is just one recent example for that:
[In Brazil], in the same month that Chinese BYD’s car carrier arrived in the country, Brazilian prosecutors announced plans to sue BYD and two of its contractors for ‘slave like conditions’ at a factory site. A task force led by Brazilian prosecutors said it rescued 163 Chinese nationals working in “slavery-like” conditions at a construction site [...] where Chinese electric vehicle company BYD is building a factory.
The [Brazilian] Labor Prosecutor’s Office released videos of the dorms where the [Chinese] construction workers were staying, which showed beds with no mattresses and rooms without any places for the workers to store their personal belongings.
Officials said [BYD contractor] Jinjiang [...] had confiscated the workers’ passports and held 60% of their wages. Those who quit would be forced to pay the company for their airfare from China, and for their return ticket, the statement said.
Prosecutors said the sanitary situation at BYD’s site in Camaçari was especially critical, with only one toilet for every 31 workers, forcing them to wake up at 4 a.m. to line up and get ready to leave for work at 5:30 a.m.
I don't think that Canadians want ChEaP cArS made by slave-labour.
I don’t think that Canadians want ChEaP cArS made by slave-labour.
No, we want big trucks that cost a fortune and rust out in 5 years.
I know we have a bunch of parts manufacturers. That Avro thing that Ford would trot out was fairly well publicized, even if many didn't understand what it was.
That Avro thing was also not an actual Canadian EV. It was a vapour-ware marketing vehicle. Its purpose was to show that Canadian companies could make all the components that go in to an EV, so that Ontario could try and attract foreign companies to use those component makers. IE. it was a proof of concept marketing tool, meant to try and sell sub-contracting services to foreign companies/interests. There was never an actual plan to make a Canadian EV on Fords roadmap. In a world where foreign companies/interests are increasingly xenophobic/antagonistic, that's not something that I want my tax dollars going towards -- and in a world where Canada has no home grown options for EVs, I want foreign options available at low costs.
We're literally watching whole cities burn due to climate change out in western Canada. And we're playing politics with sustainable options / clean energy projects.
Besides, like Ford's own ad references, protectionist tariffs deployed to protect an inefficient/non-innovative industry are bad. They also lead to trade wars. I see no reason to prioritize the interests of a small sector in Ontario, over the interests of the Canola farmers in Sask/Man. And you're not too clear on where that 'investment' is coming from in the second paragraph, but if it's from gov as well, that industry just looks even worse in terms of being a leech of resources -- and is almost a poster child for the sort of things the Reagan piece was condemning. IE. a non-innovative industry incapable of competing with international options, being propped up by gov investments, and protected by gov tariffs, with practically no deliverable we can point to as regular non-industry employed citizens.
It was a vapour-ware marketing vehicle
Be wary of anything involving Woodbridge Auto Group and Flavio Volpe.
It's not just US auto plants, we have a sizable auto parts manufacturing sector that employs a lot of Canadians. Then there are all the indirect jobs and the raw materials (steel, aluminum etc).
Any Chinese manufacturer who wants to sell EVs here needs to be pitching a plan to manufacture here.
we have a sizable auto parts manufacturing sector that employs a lot of Canadians.
and sucks billions in subsidies and general graft. If the US wants to cut us off, there is no business plan to keep subsidizing the auto sector. Australia concluded this years ago.
As a Canadian I say...what took you so long? Breakups don't always need to be so complicated.
I doubt they'll drop 'em completely as to not decimate Ontario's auto sector, which I'm a part of. That would be a political suicide. I think we'll see a foreign direct investment (FDI) promise plus some tariff adjustment that could help reverse this:

And help with that:
The financial picture for car buyers gets even uglier when you look at the average transaction price (meaning the actual selling price, excluding tax) for new vehicles. It was $53,100 in 2023, according to DesRosiers Automotive Consultants. That’s up 29 per cent from $41,200 in 2019 and up 59 per cent from $33,400 in 2014. Adjusting for inflation, the increase from 2014 and 2023 is 30 per cent (And no, cars have arguably not become 30 per cent better during that time.)
AutoTrader’s Canadian online data shows average new-vehicle asking prices (meaning advertised prices on AutoTrader) have finally started to soften, dropping to $65,219 at the end of 2024 from a peak of $67,817 in September, 2023. But, let me be clear, $65,219 is still a lot of money for a car.
Either way it'll be a sign for how this relationship reset will go forward. Whether it'll be coercive, cooperative, etc.
I agree, a foreign direct investment approach would be good. We want to keep automotive skills and North American auto brands need competition otherwise we'll never get affordable EVs.
I don’t know how I feel about this.
The US is abandoning EVs and they’re dropping their EV tooling which we were just investing in. And we’re mostly tied to them.
If we built the cars here it would be okay, but Subaru imports cars and are affordable, I don’t think China will bother building them here.
The US didn't either at first. We compromised. Now they're reneging the deal.
While you're all trying to figure out China and the US and oil geopolitics and greenhouse gases and such, I'll be riding in a European, Korean or Japanese EV M'kay? Kay.
The Japanese aren't really making EVs though. The leaf was a success, but Nissan hasn't done anything since. Japan is 100% committed to plug-in hybrids at this point.
Toyota is only coming into the EV market when solid state batteries are to be used. 2027. Nissan makes half a dozen EVs for markets that buy them. Canadians are still mostly buying large SUVs and pickups, because gas is free, apparently.
Can't speak for the ROC but in Quebec nearly 25% of all new vehicle sales are going to EV. I wouldn't say no one is buying them....
I'm not touching ICE lobby Toyota myself but I do see BZ4X and Aryia on the road.