...Democratic Socialists of America Fund, a political nonprofit organization that funded the survey...
I trust this survey implicitly.
this post was submitted on 02 Oct 2025
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If only the people would vote in their best interests for once.
So more progressive socialists are going to run in the primaries? And the voters are going to be voting in the primaries?
You'd hope. But with that list naming anti-capitalism as a marker for "terrorism", it could end up being a mechanism they use to remove those threats if they garner too much support. That's not in their best interests if they want to maintain power after the election but they've been enormously brazen with their behavior that it can't be ruled out.
History shows that quietly kowtowing to the fascists only emboldens them to go further. We have to collectively rise up against them.
collectively
This is a lot easier to do when we don't have scumbag morons attacking our voters to deflect from how their shitty leadership got us to this place (arc)
That's why I advocate for submitting a blank ballot instead of simply not voting.
Because submitting a ballot is just so easy for everyone /s
Well I agree it should be easier. Mail-in ballots should be universally available, for starters. And, as I have stated, I'm complaining about people who are choosing not to vote. I'm not complaining about people for whom oppressive tactics are being actively engaged to prevent them from voting even though they are trying to. Those of us who aren't being targeted have even more responsibility to show up and vote, to get more representatives who will fight to protect voting rights.
I'm complaining about people who are choosing not to vote.
This makes as much sense to me as complaining about people who "choose" to become gambling addicts or who "choose" to become homeless or who "choose" to engage in self harm, it just doesn't work like that. If people are "choosing" not to participate in your democracy either there's a problem with your democracy or they're in some kind of self destructive pattern that is almost certainly not going to be improved by criticism.
Moreover, how we define our problems leads directly to the sorts of solutions we end up with. If the problem is bad leaders, we can replace those leaders, and if it's a bad system we fix that system, but if the problem is that many of our voters are bad people that starts suggesting the best solution is we just stop trying to involve them in the process and just ditch the whole democracy thing altogether, and that's something I oppose almost as much as I oppose fascism/supremacist movements/genocide.
I am probably a bit too absolutist on this, but I really do think there's a slippery slope from "some eligible voters suck" to "democracy sucks" that I don't want to go down, so I really don't think we can go beyond "Republican voters suck", and I'm only willing to indulge in that kind of thing because they've been flogging the southern strategy (which is and always was fascism) for like 5+ decades and if we don't destroy that political party they will destroy us, but even then I think it's a real shame things have gotten to this point.
This makes as much sense to me as complaining about people who “choose” to become gambling addicts or who “choose” to become homeless or who “choose” to engage in self harm, it just doesn’t work like that.
I can't think of a single person I know who was disenfranchised out of voting. But I know multiple people who simply choose not to. The two most common reasons are "my vote doesn't matter" and "none of the candidates represent my principles." That is why I emphasize things like AOC and Mamdani, where the established campaigned hard against them but the voters turned up and beat the establishment. And why I point out that people can turn in a ballot with races left unselected as a way to protest the candidates while still being counted. And I emphasize doing so in the primaries, because that is when we are most able to take such a principled vote just to select the best candidate to nominate. Seriously, 2024 primaries, no state reached 40% turnout.
https://statesunited.org/resources/voter-turnout-since-2000/
So 60% of the eligible voters sat out and didn't bother with any of the downstream races for US Senators, US House Representatives, State legislators, Governors, Lieutenant Governors, Attorneys General, judges (in Texas), city councils, school boards, etc. And then they say they're not voting in the election because the candidates suck. Well fuck me my dudes, you had a chance to speak and you didn't!
But even with that low turnout, like 4% of the Democratic ballots cast had "Uncommitted" for the presidential race. and that received massive news coverage, leading to [I believe] the first time a sitting President dropped out of the election after winning the primary (yes I know, no real challengers ran in the primaries). So it's an excellent talking point to slap down in front of people who say their vote doesn't matter or they don't like the candidates. If we could get primaries up to the same turnout as the actual election, and all those previously non-voting ballots were "Uncommitted." There's no way that wouldn't have a massive response in the candidates.
If people are “choosing” not to participate in your democracy either there’s a problem with your democracy
There is definitely many things wrong with our democracy.
they’re in some kind of self destructive pattern that is almost certainly not going to be improved by criticism.
That is why I try to be clear that I am only taking issue with people who are eligible to vote and are freely and deliberately choosing not to. Minorities who are being disenfrachised, people who have health issues (mental or physical), they need the rest of us to step up and defend their rights.
Moreover, how we define our problems leads directly to the sorts of solutions we end up with. If the problem is bad leaders, we can replace those leaders, and if it’s a bad system we fix that system, but if the problem is that many of our voters are bad people that starts suggesting the best solution is we just stop trying to involve them in the process and just ditch the whole democracy thing altogether, and that’s something I oppose almost as much as I oppose fascism/supremacist movements/genocide.
I don't think they're bad people for not voting. I think they've been conditioned and/or propagandized (like that Boomer Doomer guy) and they need to be convinced that their votes do matter, can make a difference, and they can simultaneously protest vote and be counted.___
So more progressive socialists are going to run in the primaries
Thank goodness we have strong campaign finance and party regulation laws that prevent connected party insiders from creating rules or deploying resources that make it effectively impossible for progressive socialists to win /s
And the voters are going to be voting in the primaries
Thank goodness we have strong voting laws and an equitable voting system that makes it easy for everyone who wants to vote to do so /s
Thank goodness we have strong campaign finance and party regulation laws that prevent connected party insiders from creating rules or deploying resources that make it effectively impossible for progressive socialists to win /s
So .. you're telling me the Bernie Sanders didn't win the Democratic primary for Senator in Vermont to begin his federal senatorial career*? You're saying AOC, and Ilhan Omar, and Pramila Jayapal did not run in the Democratic primaries for US House? You're saying Zorhan Mamdani was barred from the Democratic primary for NYC mayor?
Thank goodness we have strong voting laws and an equitable voting system that makes it easy for everyone who wants to vote to do so /s
Wait. You mean Sanders, AOC, Omar, and Jayapal didn't win their respective elections? Even after winning the primaries they weren't allowed to campaign in?
It's a good thing you're here to correct my misperceptions of reality. I may have to rethink a few things based on these revelations.
* yes, I know Sanders won as an Independent, but he did that after first winning the Democratic primary and then turning down the nomination.
I'm saying that if your politics start with blaming the voters and not talking about the fucked up bullshit systems we're navigating that stops more AOCs and Ilhan's from getting elected we're going to waste a lot of energy fighting each other when we probably agree on a lot of policy stuff
Quit punching down at the people and start punching up at systems, how we campaign matters and "are you ready to stop being a bunch of fuck ups" is a lot less appealing than "are you ready to stop getting fucked over"
e; Also, yes, progressive socialists are going to run in primaries. For example, Kat Abughazaleh -
Mirror link - https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=mMPmvoUaJa8
Kat's great, I'd be stumping for her if I lived there. Unfortunately I'm in Texas and gerrymandered to hell. Close to a major metro area though, so there's hope I'll have an option to vote for in the primaries. But I'll still put my ballot in either way.
Por que no los dos
I’m saying that if your politics start with blaming the voters
I can blame people who don't vote for the act of not voting. They're choosing to remove themselves from the conversation and then complaining they don't have a voice. If you don't like any of the candidates then leave those races blank on the ballot, but still turn in a ballot. That puts you on record as an actual voter. Once that happens, campaign managers will work to find out how to win your vote. Campaign managers don't give a crap about the opinions of non-voters.
and not talking about the fucked up bullshit systems we’re navigating
100% our electoral system is garbage. But we have to recognize that it will march on forward without us if we don't participate, and removing ourselves from the conversation will not get anyone in any position to changes things to even try.
Quit punching down at the people and start punching up at systems, how we campaign matters and “are you ready to stop being a bunch of fuck ups” is a lot less appealing than “are you ready to stop getting fucked over”
Right. I didn't say "fuck you, non-voter, for not voting!", that's just how you responded to me asking rhetorically if people are going to come out and vote. Indeed, the way to punch up at an electoral system that wants us to stay home is to show up and vote in spite of it.
I didn't say "fuck you, non-voter, for not voting!",
Except at the beginning of your comment,
I can blame people who don't vote for the act of not voting
Please do that while voicing support for Republicans because that shit is a) electoral poison and b) deeply fucking offensive given everything the average American has been subjected to by our dogshit leaders in the last 2 decades
I do acknowledge the apparent contradiction. However, I was referring to my original post to which you had replied.
Please do that while voicing support for Republicans
Not really sure what you're saying here. I don't think I've ever voiced support for the Republicans. I'm not even voicing support for the Democratic party. I'm just saying to vote for better candidates in the primaries.
I'm saying that your insistence on attacking voters is going to be a drag on whoever you're associated with so I think you should start telling people you support Republicans because I want them to lose
Ah. I'm not attacking voters. I'm talking about people who are eligible to vote and simply choosing not to. I want them to vote instead of not vote. Then they will be voters instead of non-voters and I won't have anything to complain about them for.
edit: PS - I also want the fascists to lose.
Upvoted for the PS, in that we are in 100% agreement
It won’t matter if they do because half of independents don’t like socialism and the republicans will win anyway.
You know if there's one thing I've learned, it's that defeatism is the best way to win!
Not being defeatist didn’t stop us from getting here.
Not being defeatist
When exactly was this? I have heard "oh, I like [candidate/policy] but there's no way they can win/it can get passed, we need to be realistic" so many times from so many elected officials and media figures with big platforms I wouldn't even know where to begin listing examples
“Here’s how Bernie can still win”
“Guys we just need to vote for Nader!”
It’s never going to happen. Most of the country won’t vote for it, and the backlash will be huge.
We’re doomed.
Bernie didn't win the nomination, but he inspired a new generation of Democratic Socialists to run and a lot of them won. I know it's oversimplified .. but they just need to run and we need to turn up and vote. It has to start with smaller, local districts. And those are the races who are hurt the most by this defeatism that we can't win the presidency on this ticket today, so I may as well not vote at all.
I’ve been turning up to vote.
It isn’t working.
I’ve been turning up to vote.
Awesome! If you can, next time bring someone who never has before.
It isn’t working.
As regular voters, you and I aren't what I'm encouraging needs to change. We still have pitiful turnout, particularly in the primaries.
https://statesunited.org/resources/voter-turnout-since-2000/
Not one state reached 40% turnout in the 2024 primaries. Some states had better primary turnout in 2022! With all the state and federal Representatives and 1/3 of Senators, so many people said "the Democratic party won't hold a real primary for President so I'm going to ignore all the rest of the offices that effect me and then complain about all the candidates in the general."
We can't vote extra hard to make up for the people who don't vote at all. We have to try and get them to vote.
Like I haven’t been trying to get other people to vote, too.
And writing my legislators.
And signing petitions.
And showing up at protests.
And it’s still not working.
All I'm saying is giving up and doing nothing has less chance of working.
Both won’t work.
One wastes less of my time.
Instead of joining the defeatists (whatever percentage of the the 1/3 of eligible voters who don't vote because "my vote doesn't matter"), why not try and get them to vote. For the folks who don't vote because they don't like any of the candidates, just start turning in an empty ballot. Higher turnout leads to more representative government. Imagine if we suddenly had >90% turnout and 20% of the voters cast a ballot saying "all the candidates suck." That would reported on so heavily there's no way campaign strategies won't change the next election cycle. More diverse candidates will run because "look at how many active voters want something different!" We've never tried that before and we can do it with literally no electoral reform needing to be passed.
Wow I hadn’t thought of that! Nobody’s ever suggested that to me and I definitely never canvassed a neighborhood, especially when I’d go with my parents as a kid over 30 years ago!