350,000 a year are 1,000 a day are 1 a day and km on a 1,000 km frontline. Ukraine has an active 850 km frontline.
Russia is producing 250,000 per month.
How are we going to win?
this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2025
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See, the way counting works, is that you count to 1 first, and then go on to count to 10.
But in a slightly less dickish answer, Europe is fundamentally at peace. We're doing peacetime production, meaning that companies will only produce what they can sell at a profit until they at the very least recoup the investment. If the EU starts making 1.5m shells per month, nobody will buy them. Companies being companies, they will maximize profit, meaning they only really want to build efficiently.
Russia is fundamentally at war. They will buy every single shell anyone can produce. Screw profit, screw efficiency. If you're hand-lathing 7 casings per year in your garden shed, they'll take em. Volume is more important than cost or efficiency. Retooling existing factories, putting up old, inefficiΓ«nt and unprofitable factories is a great idea if all you want is more at whatever cost.
But if/when Europe goes to war, the same will happen. BMW will start making military trucks, Corus will be making shells and armor, Lego starts making claymores etc etc. But we're not doing that right now, because economics doesn't work like that.
We are at the same war as Russia. If we don't outproduce Russia then what is our winning strategy?
Yeah, support for Ukraine is really half assed at best. The winning strategy seems to be waiting on the Orange to do something which he won't ever.
A proxy war is different than a hot war on your doorstep.
I mean, we SHOULD be, but honestly, we're not
Lego claymores. Like the sound of it. Coby claymores. BlueBrixx claymores. God it sounds amazing!
Hopefully coming with a minifigure so lego fanboys will buy it too /j
Behold, a Lego claymore:
One wrong step and it's game over
Stepped on thousends of those. They dont hurt. I dont know what you are on about.
Now a D4 metal dice though...!
Russia isn't producing 250k per month of anything, apart from gullible people on the internet believing their bullshit
How would the USA defeat Spain?
Because the economic size difference is about the same. People need to stop thinking Russia is like the USSR. It's not. It's a single medium size european country. Its economy is the size of Spain's. Each of France, Italy, Germany are bigger.
350,000 in a single factory. There are a lot of others and other manufacturers as well.
Also being 1000km from the frontline in another country is a massive advantage. It means Russia can not easily bomb it.
Also being 1000km from the frontline in another country is a massive advantage. It means Russia can not easily bomb it.
Yes, but it is not the 1000km from the frontline the point, it is the fact that it is in another country. The plant could be 50 Km from the frontline but as long as it is in another country (Germany in this case) Russia cannot hit it, even if they are able to.
True, there is always a "we made a mistake" story but honestly I would be very carefull to make such "mistake".
100 rounds do not matter if they are made so poorly and fired from cannons so old they end up hitting 3km away from the target. Even more so if the cannon is obliterated minutes later thanks to precise counter fire.
1 round matters greatly if it lands exactly where it was supposed to. As the round is in the air, the cannon has already packed up and is on its way somewhere else, making counter fire impossible.
If you have many cannons and they all shoot at roughly the same area, the many imprecise rounds end up saturating the area effectively.
I fully agree with you that we cannot just look at the raw numbers, but we should also acknowledge that quantity can beat quality. In the modern context we see that with drone swarms that overwhelm sophisticated missile AA systems and lead back to the quantity over quality defense with high RPM cannons being more effective.
By sending half of it to Israel, of course. How else?
How are we going to win?
Based on your history here, I'm not entirely convinced what your "we" is in this conflict, ngl..
Aren't we at war to defend the values that allow us to have divergent opinions? I am and will be involved in the war, no matter what I say, because the majority decides. At the same time I think it's at least a bit of my duty to point out that the German population is fooled once more.
Arenβt we at war to defend the values that allow us to have divergent opinions?
While Ukraine does indeed also fight this war for the future of a free Europe, we are not at war.
But although Ukraine also fights for our values that allow us to have divergent opinions, that doesn't stop people here that like to take an opposing position towards various matters to root for the other side. Can you say you want Ukraine to be victorious against Russia?
We are at war. The numerouse sabotage acts by russia, financing of causes that weaken europe. Blowing up factories, spying on us. They speak actively about nuking and obliterating all of europe in a nuckear holocaust
I agree, these are all hostile acts that could (and should?) be handled far more harshly to make sure no further escalation occurs.
We are adversaries. But legally, we are not at war (yet) and I don't think either side has a strong interest to cross that threshold. Yet, some people like to paint the picture that we are led by warmongers that actively seek a military conflict with Russia. We don't. But Russia should also be wary of its actions.
Oh fully with you!
From legal point we arent at war. We the EU and democratic europe doesnt want war. Russia, and we can agree on it, want it and will do it as soon as they can. It will be a death for russia (yay) they cant even defeat the brave martyrs of democracy, soldiers of ukraine.
Our leaders arent warmongerers. The only once that want war are the leaders, the propagandised and fanatics in russia. Its such a sad reality but one we have to be ready to face, together! The enemys from within and outside
It is a hybrid war with a lose lose lose situation for Ukraine. Win, lose, keep fighting, nothing is good. Seeing this like a sport event with teams to root for ignores how entwined the situation is.
Russia invaded Ukraine and right now, Ukraine has to fight Russia in order to survive. Nothing cloudy about that.
Everyone will have an opinion on the question whether they want Ukraine to succeed. Russia has a clear opinion, I have a clear opinion,..
Seeing this like a sport event with teams to root for ignores how entwined the situation is.
The "team" I root for is fighting for its survival.
It's your choice whether you want to root for them to survive or don't.
It's your choice to frame this as a competition of teams or not.
What will be the outcome if Ukraine wins?
Have you seen the surveillance that is coming up for the EU and the tendency to dissolve the nation states? Kyiv is fighting to be ruled by Brussels in exchange for Moscow. Ukraine won't survive in the EU either.
Kyiv is fighting to be ruled by Brussels in exchange for Moscow. Ukraine wonβt survive in the EU either.
Trying to equate the atrocities* Russia has so far conducted on Ukrainian soil and with Ukrainian people with being subject to EU regulations? Really?
*at least those we know of right now.. who knows what else will surface up..
That's not the comparison. It's 2014 Ukraine compared to 2030 EU.
That's exactly the choice Ukraine is facing right now: give in to Russia's constant violent aggression and cease to exist or securing independence within the framework of 'Western' nations and finally freeing itself from the poisonous Russian influence and oppression.
Only that 2030 or 2040 EU will be much like Russia today.
We'll see. Β―_(γ)_/Β―
Why is mark rutte there, the same guy who wants eu to spend billions on usa defence industry instead of our own.
Because he is the NATO secretary. However I agree that it is shitty to bend under pressure by Trump and to support buying expensive US weaponry like that.
Because he is NATO secretary ?
Its ironic that he was there for the opening ceremony, given his past actions trying to divert funds from eu's defence industry into the defence industry of usa. (And no he's not a nato secretary, he's a usa puppet as are most of eu leaders, unfortunately)
Mark Rutte is a Dutch politician who has served as the 14th secretary general of NATO since October 2024
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/davos-nato-chief-rutte-reaffirms-need-step-up-support-ukraine-2025-01-23/ (rutte saying eu countries should buy more usa weapons) https://www.npr.org/2025/08/05/g-s1-81084/europe-us-weapons-ukraine-russia-war (eu countries buying weapons from usa, instead of investing into their domestic defence industry, because rutte gave trump the idea that he can sell eu countries weapons needed for ukraine)