this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2025
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Greetings Hexbears!

I just pounded out this long ass comment in a thread inquiring about why leftists tend to oppose GenAI and LLMs, when I realized the post was already over a week old and no one will probably read it. Thought it was insightful enough to reshare and, given your reputation, figured people here would find it interesting to read.

I recently finished reading Capital, and many of these thoughts jumped out at me during my reading. Interested in hearing what you think or if you have any critiques or addendums.

Anyways, here's the text:

I haven’t seen any comments here that adequately address the core of the issue from a leftist perspective, so I will indulge.

LLMs are fundamentally a tool to empower capital and stack the deck against workers. This is a structural problem, and as such, is one that community efforts like FOSS are ill-equipped to solve.

Given that training LLMs from scratch requires massive computational power, you must control some means of production. i.e. You must own a server farm to scrape publicly accessible data or collect data from hosting user services. Then you must also own a server farm equipped with large arrays of GPUs or TPUs to carry out the training and most types of inference.

So the proletariat cannot simply wield these tools for their own purposes, they must use the products that capital allows to be made available (i.e. proprietary services or pre-trained “open source” models)

Then comes the fact that the core market for these “AI” products is not end users; it is capitalists. Capitalists who hope their investments will massively pay off by cutting labor costs on the most expensive portion of the proletariat: engineers, creatives, and analysts.

Even if “AI” can never truly replace most of these workers, it can convince capitalists and their manager servants to lay off workers, and it can convince workers that their position is more precarious due to pressure from the threat of replacement, discouraging workers for fighting for increased pay and benefits and better working conditions.

As is the case with all private private property, profits made by “AI” and LLM models will never reach the workers that built those models, nor the users who provided the training data. It will be repackaged as a product owned by capital and resold to the workers, either through subscription fees, token pricing, or through forfeiture of private data.

Make no mistake, once the models are sufficiently advanced, tools sufficiently embedded into workflows, and the market sufficiently saturated, the rug will be pulled, and “enshittification” will begin. Forcing workers to pay exorbitant prices for these tools in a market where experience and skills are highly commoditized and increasingly difficult to acquire.

The cherry on top is that “AI” is the ultimate capital. The promise of “AI” is that capitalists will be able to use the stolen surplus value from workers to eliminate the need for variable capital (i.e. workers) entirely. The end goal is to convert the whole of the proletariat into maximally unskilled labor, i.e. a commodity, so they can be maximally exploited, with the only recourse being a product they control the distribution of. AI was never going to be our savior, as it is built with the intent of being our enslaver.

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[–] combat_brandonism@hexbear.net 15 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Then you must also own a server farm equipped with large arrays of GPUs or TPUs to carry out the training and most types of inference.

Can add that you also need to be able to pay people shit wages to train those LLMs. idc about Deepseek, afaik most training for novel models is done by humans

[–] Cat_Daddy@hexbear.net 10 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Good analysis. It is capital, and it relies on free labor to train them. In fact, they are more closely akin to chattel slavery insofar as all the work required to feed this beast is provided for free. If they fairly compensated every original author, no such mechanism could be created under capitalism. Capitalism does not, in fact, breed innovation. Far from it. It actually stifles innovation until such a time as it can be done essentially for free, and then only for the bourgeoisie.

[–] combat_brandonism@hexbear.net 10 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

If they fairly compensated every original author

when you're right-wing of the dot world :lemmitors: (actually OP but still, they post on dot world)

artists aren't fairly compensated under capitalism, full stop, and the idea of 'intellectual property' exists so that capital can exploit them more completely than when they were dependent on patronage from the aristocracy

edit:

free labor to train them

the training is done by (under) paid labor in the global south. the input data is free labor

[–] Cat_Daddy@hexbear.net 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You are correct, but I did say under capitalism. We are necessarily making these statements from a capitalist perspective because that's the world we live in. I probably should have clarified that statement by saying in the view of the AI owners, these things couldn't have been made along with compensating the authors. They are only profitable now because of the huge glut of free content they can absorb, legally or not.

[–] combat_brandonism@hexbear.net 12 points 3 months ago (4 children)

sorry comrade, I got touchy because we've had a rash of 'think of the IP' pearl-clutching here for the last two years

[–] NuclearDolphin@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 months ago

This is the exact sentiment that prompted me to write the original post. Mastodon is full of these property brained dorks too.

[–] MLRL_Commie@hexbear.net 8 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Got into a shit flinging thing recently here because of it. Still kinda pissed about it and was writing out a long essay tackling it, though I don't think I'll ever post it because I just feel like I'm trying to explain super basic class analysis

Fuck AI for many of the reasons mentioned: a bubble of wasted energy and tools solely to support already useless aristocratic fake jobs, while trying to eliminate real ones by filling it with worse results. It's regressive in that it will ruin existing infrastructure (digital, likely) and hurt our abilities to think and learn. But hurting IP laws is good

[–] Cat_Daddy@hexbear.net 5 points 3 months ago

No, it was my fault for going short, that was a good call

[–] LargeAdultRedBook@hexbear.net 8 points 3 months ago

I wrote a bunch of comments related to this topic in this now deleted thread. A comrade messaged me to tell me they found them useful enough to share with some colleagues, so maybe you may also find them interesting.

[–] devils_dust@hexbear.net 8 points 3 months ago

Your analysis reminds me of https://cendyne.dev/posts/2023-05-11-reverse-centaur-chickenization-chatgpt.html#chickenization, and I agree that there is an implicit promise of automating qualified labor away, but on the other hand, the problem is not necessarily in reducing the average labor time required for a given activity but what it means under capitalism.

Personally, while I find LLMs valuable for a certain subset of tasks I also do not think they are able to entirely replace people in their current form. This won't stop capitalists from trying, unfortunately.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 months ago

Oops, that post is 10 days old. I'll just repost here~

It’s not the technology per se, it’s the political-economy of LLM training - it’s essentially colonial. They treat all content on the internet like something they can just take without compensation for the people who made it. They treat our electricity and water the same way, just a cheap resource that they can take. They treat their mechanical turks and trainers the same way, just cheap disposable labor that they can take.

As for their goals, to essentially industrialize and proletarianize all intellectual labor, I think this will be the foundation of their own destruction. They’re kicking these professionals down the class ladder into the working class by deskilling their labor, and that only raises the contradictions.

Shrinking the so-called “middle class” segment in the metropoles undermines the whole basis for colonialism in the first place.

[–] altkey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

AI is also an ideal replacement for a middle-manager fall guy you can pin everything on, with an agency of something divine.

Massive layofs, market tilts, monopolization, corner cutting, targeted incarcerations, media manipulation, warcrimes, probably everything can be explained with it's Will and Presence. AI is a source of unchallenged power passed to capitalists by the Algorythm. And it's integration in many systems is not unlike some state&church honeymoon phase.

And although I myself and many dismiss it as too junky for our own workflow, ehem, the junkiness is on point. LLM works in misterious ways, you know, with all it's weights, and it's not an outdated dude-on-a-cloud but our cool pure math! And that techno-teo-fascism spreads like cancer.

I'm not well versed in marxism yet, but from my knowledge of history of RE\USSR and arguments against state religion, they line up nicely with AI hype too.

  1. Russian church held a monopoly on affordable education for the masses, only nobles could choose prestige education without indocrination - introduction of SOMEONE's AI into classrooms, eradication of useful information on the internet in general, putting headshots on public academia by opening a box of LLMandora on them too;
  2. Russian church was a source of power for the crown and vice versa. Sometimes it stuffed the deck of it's narrative to support the king and influence the masses, but there were decades where the church was the sole biggest landowner challenging their might too. Proto-lobbyism, the god-given power to rule and overly abundant stonk rubles taking the charge!

IAopium for the masses.

[–] StillNoLeftLeft@hexbear.net 5 points 3 months ago

Good analysis. I was just thinking about this the other day along the lines of what Marx says about automation in Grundrisse and was thinking that AI could be considered fixed capital from his analysis there (provided I understood it).

What I think is different is that for this round of automation the capitalists have managed to steal not just surplus value from labor, but the use value of everything that was ever put in the public domain, from literature to research and make it a part of this fixed capital without compensation.

Not sure where I am going with this, mostly thinking out loud.