This is more of a rant than anything, but I've been playing Elden Ring lately and just ragequit today, not because of a boss but because the game locked me out of multiple quests because I progressed too far.
(Edit:This isn't to say I don't like Elden Ring. It's great I can see why people like it so much, just that this one part really irked me)
I don't mind missing things that happen because I obviously do something to impact them. For example in Fallout NV, you can fail and miss multiple quests by destroying the brotherhood of steel. Obviously that would do that. But here the action I performed didn't change anything about the map or prevented these quests from progressing in some way, it's just that the game said "oops you progressed too far now you can't go back and do these quests." And since Elden Ring doesn't have an independent-multiple save system (and since I play on console), I can't just reload a save like in other games. I know it's partially my fault, but simultaneously this would've been avoided if I knew where the quests were.
[I dont know how to do spoilers on Lemmy, so these paragraphs will be more in depth but contain spoilers, but the rest of the post should be spoiler free]
Obviously burning the Erdtree is a big world altering decision, but why would that fail, say, Nephali Loux's quest? She's nowhere near that and you can keep doing her quest if you completed the portion in the Albinauric village before doing so.
[Side note:Hey writers, I have an idea, have Gideon say "go to the Albinauric village in lineria" so I actually know where it is. I assumed it was in some area accessed after continuing the main story, because I didn't search one single area half a game ago. Also what's with these lift medallions being continents apart?]
There's brother Coryn too. I get that he is a lot closer to the Erdtree both literally and figuratively, but there are other quests that just skip portions depending on your progress. But that's not my main issue.
[Spoilers over]
My main issue is not that these quests can be failed, it's that I didnt know they existed until I was told about them. There's literally no way to know where a charecter is at a given moment unless you've already encountered them at the location. So sometimes you're trying to find a needle in a country sized haystack in order to experience the game. And if Elden Ring was shorter, sure. But one run missing all of this is over 100 hours already. I have a life. As much as I want to, I don't want to play through another 100 hours just to experience a couple quests.
There's another game that I have a similar issue with, which is Knights of the Old Republic 2. It says you can visit the planets in any order, but you really, REALLY shouldn't.
A.Theres obviously an intended path, where you start at either Dantooine or the crime planet (I forgot the names of a lot of these sorry), then go to the planet in a civil war (like I said forgot the names), get kicked out, go to the shortest planet of Korriban, and then go back to the third planet mentioned then finish the game.
B.Crime planet has three whole crew members you can miss, which all have questlines that take a while and you can't enjoy them if you do that planet last, it fucks up the progression.
Obviously I can just play the game through again, but again, it's more than a little stint there. And also it makes the first playthrough where you're exploring a lot less satisfying.
However, there is the alternative mentioned in the title. Where game devs are so scared of you missing things that they'll actively prevent you from not doing it or mark everything and the kitchen sink.
Cyberpunk 2077 does the latter, where every quest and job (with the exception of a few minor ones) is marked on your map from the very beginning. Of course you are being contracted for a lot of these so I'll cut them some slack. But only a bit, because otherwise all the ones where you should find them randomly are all marked (again with a few very small exceptions). If I know to find content and stuff, I just need to click on the little yellow icon and follow the line, then I wont explore. And guess what, I didn't. Maybe id look around a few corners or climb some places looking for weapons and such, but never did I look around specifically to find a quest. Because I didn't have too.
Skyrim does the former. It doesn't mark literally everything, but it'll force you down certain things because they want you to experience stuff. Take Riften for example. You try to get in, the guards try to make you bribe them. You walk in and three conversations you overhear, in a row, are about the theives guild. Then when you get to the market, a member of the theives guild just walks up to you and asks you to participate in a scheme. And to literally progress the main quest you have to do this one thing. I don't mind being forced to commit a crime or whatever, but its very obvious the devs want you to play the thieves guild quest and do not want you to miss it. Hell, you can try and mess it up over and over and the game will go "wow, you're really bad at thieving. Anyway go steal this thing now." They do a similar thing with the mages guild, where to access the college for the main quest you have to join the college. You don't have to do the questline in full in either case, but you have to interact with it in a very heavy handed manner instead of joining naturally, unless you visit these locations before. But that's the thing. If you want to join these guilds, then you actively search for them when you hear the rumors of a theives guild or talk about the mages college. But if you dont want to do that, then you're forced into it anyway, leaving a very half done feeling.
But why are these the two systems? Why can't the game help you find things without explicitly giving you the address and wiki article for the quest?
The example that comes to mind for me is the original Baldurs Gate. This isn't some "err durr old game gooder" thing, but it's just the first example I can think of. In that game you have a quest log and sets of notes, but there's no markers or explicit instructions. It'll be like "x person said there was y at z." Z can be a large city or town, and that can be simply a way to guide you to something that sounds interesting. Or there is an npc in a place called Gullykin that says "hey, on your way to Durlags tower?" Usually you're not at that stage of the game, but it does mark a note in your brain that there's this tower people adventure too. But at the same time you can just ignore it. If you dont want to you don't have to do the best dungeon in the game. Obviously it's not perfect, but if I had to choose a system i would much rather then rather than being led on a leash or blindfolded.
Obviously you can't just copy and paste this in a games mentioned, but something in the same vain would be nice.
So for Elden Ring, a simple system of notes saying where each character said they were going after your last interaction, or a note on the ground where you last found them. Elden ring even does this at one point. There's a charecter right at the beginning of the game who moves if you exhaust his dialog. When he does he puts a note down saying "hey I'm off to the church in Linuria." And you go and find him there. This would be nice instead of blindly searching for these people or not even knowing if their quests continue.
Cyberpunk 2077 is harder, but maybe it could work with a mixed system, where you find jobs on the map, but the side quests are found through exploration (assuming it's not given to you by someone calling or texting you, obviously)
Not sure about KOTOR 2. But just a nudge in a specific direction, or even just making enemies in places you shouldn't be yet a lot more difficult, so that you're courted in going to the easier and more manageable planets first. Considering this is how most other RPGs work, including Fallout NV, it shouldn't be a shock.
Sorry for the long post. Thus Just keeps bugging me and I really wish I didn't feel inclined to look up guides for games I play so I don't keep missing things because I didn't check under every single rock or go in the exact order the game wanted me to