this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2025
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39
Air India crash seems to be caused by Cut Off fuel (archive.ph)
submitted 1 day ago by dastanktal@lemmy.ml to c/news@hexbear.net
19 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/33032120

Fuel to Air India Plane Was Cut Off Before Crash, Report Says

It appears that that Air India crash might have been caused by Pilot Error. While it's still early to be conclusive the black boxes do seem to confirm that there were no mechanical issues and that the fuel was cut off and caught the attention of the pilots.

The captain had 10,000 hours and the first officer had 3,400.

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[–] VILenin@hexbear.net 21 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Well, reading the report, there seems to be some ambiguity. It’s unclear if the recorder is based off of the physical position of the fuel cutoff switches or off of a digital reading.

I have flown the 787. As for the switches themselves, they are in a detente and you have to pull them against a spring and over a notch to move them to the off position. It’s hard to imagine how they would be moved unintentionally, especially by these experienced pilots. The report says they were shut off within 1 second of each other.

One of the pilots asks the other why they shut off the switches, the other pilot denies it, and shortly afterwards they are turned back on but by then it’s too late.

So, I can see where the “murder/suicide” people are coming from, but it’s important to understand that this report is the preliminary report mandated by ICAO and is for informational purposes only. Only the final report will determine a probable cause for the accident, if it can be determined, and looking at the facts, it’s unlikely that they can come to a definite conclusion, since there is no video footage of the cockpit. If there was something wrong with the switches, they will be very lucky if they can still tell. If one of the pilots switched them off, it’s impossible to know which one and why, and who turned them back on (and if it was the same pilot after realizing a mistake).

[–] dastanktal@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I was reading somewhere that apparently there is an override for the fuel switches so they can be turned freely maybe they could have accidentally be bumped but from what you're saying that doesn't sound very likely.

Even if they made a mistake it could also be to something like drowsiness. that would mean they would have made a mistake but it's not their fault that the mistake was made in the first place.

The NTSB has managed to investigate and come up with pretty decent conclusions on crazy or things so I'm hoping they'll have something better in the final report.

[–] VILenin@hexbear.net 15 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

There are a few ways to shut off the engine without touching the fuel switches, if this happened it should have been logged, but they haven’t released the raw data.

At this point in the flight the pilot flying should have both hands on the yoke, and the other pilot is responsible for raising the gear, flaps, making radio calls etc. Definitely neither pilot should have their hands anywhere near the fuel switches, but fatigue has been demonstrated to make massive mistakes possible. Raising the gear level is vaguely similar (you have to pull it out of a detente and flip it over a notch). Of course the gear lever is nowhere near the fuel switches, but that goes back to my point about fatigue. It’s extremely rare, but the safety mechanism for the switches has failed before, if this happened it would make accidentally flipping them an easier thing to do.

But as I’ve said, intent is a very hard thing to prove. The only times pilot suicide has unambiguously been proven is when they a)locked the other pilot out, or b) were recorded ranting and raving in the cockpit. Hopefully the AAIB can determine if there was a mechanical fault. But if they determine that the switches are the reason, I would guess the final report would say the cause is “due to activation of the fuel cutoff switches for unknown reasons”, or some variation of that.

Take Air France 447, for example. The first officer pulled the nose up while in a stall and held it in that position despite every pilot learning on day one to do the exact opposite. He continued to do so even when the captain told him to push the nose down. Was that pilot suicide? A possibility, yes, but something that’s unprovable.

[–] dastanktal@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 day ago

That's very true but the report seem to paint Bonin As just simply making a mistake. He just defaulted to the wrong mode in a panic which is why he reacted the wrong way to the stall.

Even if they restarted the engines pretty quick would they have managed to avoid the crash?

Still I highly doubt this was a pilot suicide.

[–] footfaults@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I hate that people are immediately jumping to "oh one of the pilots was suicidal and wanted to do a murder/suicide"

This is the same shit, whenever something happens with a Boeing plane, they IMMEDIATELY blamed the pilots because they had dark skin. They did it with MCAS with the Ethiopian flight that crashed, and now they're doing it to the Indian pilots

[–] dastanktal@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

To me it definitely seems very early to be blaming the pilots. Especially given the quote in the article about the voice recorder where are the pilots were talking about the cut-off fuel which means they noticed it. It could also be just a completely innocent mistake just due to the massive amount of time that a pilot has to do but it seems unusual that Pilots this experienced would make this type of mistake.

It'll be for sure interesting when the final report comes out about what was discovered but you know they're releasing this initial report to reduce damage to Boeing imho

[–] footfaults@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

To me it definitely seems very early to be blaming the pilots

I agree but I think you and I are unfortunately in the minority here. Hacker News, the top comments are about it being a murder suicide, and in some group chats I'm in they're parroting the same thing

[–] dastanktal@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Unfortunately you know how it is when it comes to racism and United States airplanes.

Given that this is on the 787 which allegedly has some issues by a whistleblower I really curious to see the final report before I condemn anybody.

Besides both of these Pilots flew for years. That means they've flown probably thousands of flights over their lifetime and it was just this last flight that didn't go well.

Also there isn't any proof about this being a suicide. No one's released anything about any statements any of the pilots have said. And isn't that really frowned upon in India anyway?

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It's frowned upon in Christian countries too, I'm not sure if that has a huge amount of bearing, though I strongly disbelieve the suicide guess.

[–] dastanktal@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I mean I feel like it's more specifically a Catholic thing then it it is a Christian thing. Maybe Protestants are like that too but from my time as a Methodist they did not care about suicide as a sin. They were much more concerned about you know getting you help professionally.

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 4 points 1 day ago

It's probably specific to region because the majority of people in my general region for several states is "they're going to hell." Obviously the victims already were in hell or it wouldn't have happened, and I find this attitude particularly disturbing, but I'm the obvious outlier, here.

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

There are a lot of more conservative/fundamentalist protestants who will also tell you that you will go to Hell for suicide, but I'm sure there are places and denominations where that's not true.

[–] dastanktal@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago

I'm super glad my parents weren't really religious so I got to miss out on this particular flavor of suck

[–] footfaults@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Also there isn’t any proof about this being a suicide.

The top rated comment from HN went straight to speculation about suicide

[–] dastanktal@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago

It's difficult to conclude anything other than murder-suicide.

How the actual fuck did they come to that conclusion?

Does seem like there are people pointing out different ways this could have conceivably happened their too which is nice to see.

[–] SorosFootSoldier@hexbear.net 15 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The captain had 10,000 hours and the first officer had 3,400.

Sure it could have been an honest mistake but that's a lot of flight time under both their belts AND it was a Boeing and we all know their plane track record and what happens to whistleblowers.

[–] dastanktal@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I'm really inclined to believe that it's the planes fault somehow. Especially considering that the voice recorder picked up both Pilots noticing the fuel had been cut off.

I think someone else on this thread mentioned something about the Ethiopian Pilots being blamed for the 737 crash due to MCAS. Which is really crazy because that was the only group that actually followed the relative bullet point in case that exact issue happened and they just could not turn it around.

You notice what airplanes we haven't talked about falling from the sky? Airbus.

[–] SchillMenaker@hexbear.net 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Airbus has a weird issue that they haven't addressed where the pilot/copilot sticks don't give feedback to each other and it's definitely been a factor in a few crashes.

In a reasonable world though at least a few Boeing executives would have been executived.

[–] dastanktal@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 day ago

Hmm good point. Last I checked didn't they fix this by creating a better alerting system and vibrating the sticks if both are engaged?

Still there record looking much much better then Boeing at this point.