this post was submitted on 06 Jun 2025
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No Stupid Questions

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The question sounds hyper stupid but hear me out.

We have an underwhelming volume of shit that relies on plastic. Plastic is cheap and versatile. If we replaced the vast majority of it, I presume costs for most products would creep up, and we would also shift our demand for natural resources (such as wood for paper ). Are there enough resources to sustainably replace our current volume of single use plastics? Or would we be sentencing all of our remaining forests to extinction if we did? Would products remain roughly equally affordable?

Let's imagine we replace, overnight, all single use plastic in this hypothetical scenario with an alternative. All parcels are now mailed in paper; waxed paper if you need humidity resistance. Styrofoam pebbles are now paper shreds and cardboard clusters. No more plastic film, anywhere. No more plastic bags, only paper. No more plastic wrapping for any cookies confectionery, etc; it's paper and thin boxes like those of cereals. Toothbrushes, pens, and a variety of miscellaneous items are now made of wood, cardboard, glass, metal, etc. The list goes on, but you get the idea.

Is this actually doable? Or is there another reason besides plastic companies not wanting to run out of business that we haven't done this already? Why are we still using so much fucking plastic?

(page 2) 20 comments
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[–] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

We could just have less stuff. Plastic allowed us to make massive amounts of stuff so we could have more stuff and stuff stuff stuff stuff stuff.

We need both less plastic and less stuff. We shouldn't be replacing everything that is plastic, we should be replacing some of it and reduce consumption.

[–] TranquilTurbulence@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

In the beginning, things would suck, because low prices come from economies of scale, and the petrochemical industry certainly has scale. Once you’ve ramped up glass, paper and metal packaging factories, it should be tolerable.

There are also new materials such as biodegradable plastic and even mycelia. That would be useful.

If we also ramp up various carbon capture technologies, you could technically turn that carbon into plastics, so you won’t need any more oil. Obviously, that wouldn’t solve the climate crisis. You need CCS for that. Probably not going to happen within the next century, but it’s technically possible.

[–] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (4 children)

biodegradable plastic

Pretty sure that is bullshit just like how 'easy' plastic is to recycle.

[–] TranquilTurbulence@lemmy.zip 5 points 1 day ago

There’s plenty of variety within that term. Also, recycling some of them requires very precise conditions.

It exists, if just isn't a solid replacement for normal plastic. It'll crumble to dust and dissolve before you can actually get any use out of the material.

[–] Ephera@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago

I think, it's possible to find alternative materials which behave similar to plastic in certain use-cases.

But yeah, I can't see a one-for-one replacement happening. It's part of the appeal of plastic, that it does not degrade.

[–] Nurse_Robot@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It's worth looking into, the research seems promising

[–] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

It exists to perpetuate the the continued production of plastic as a whole, just like 'clean coal' and vaping and recycling lies exist to make people fine with consuming all of the similar stuff that isn't even pretending to not kill us.

The scenario is a bit misleading. We didn't arrive at everything being wrapped in single-use plastic overnight so we cannot switch the other way that quickly either.

Perishable or hygienic reasons must allow for continued use for some products. But there are plenty of things that don't fall under that umbrella where waxed paper or single-use bamboo could make sense. You have correctly identified cost as an issue. The reason why everything is still wrapped in plastic like a corpse in Twin Peaks is it's cheaper. Plastic packaging is also more resistant to damage on the way to the consumer. So the calculations need to change. We need to raise the cost on plastic and lower it on other more quickly biodegradable items. That's a political decision, one that would be heavily lobbied against by the big boys in packaging. Yet another reason why overnight simply won't work.

The question about resources also hinges on the time frame. If the switch had to occur today, the answer is probably no. There aren't enough paper mills and bamboo nurseries in the world to meet demand. But there weren't a gazillion plastic factories from the start, they grew over time in numbers. One should also not forget that paper mills aren't without environmental impact. And neither would bamboo toothbrushes be. Also if we increase the amount of arable land to grow bamboo, are we decreasing land for food or animal feed? What are the effects of growing bamboo on the land without fellow periods? What fertilizer would be used? What toxic insect killer chemicals would need to be in use to guarantee sustainable levels of production? It's not like one option is the perfect solution to fix the problems with the other option.

A holistic aporoach would also have to include us consumers changing our behavior. That's definitely not happening overnight.

[–] beerclue@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Not exactly answering your dilemma, but I was watching a cooking channel yesterday (Sorted), and they were talking about seaweed - it’s wild (heh). You can use it to make straws, bags, packaging and all sorts of stuff that’s foodsafe and biodegradable. And apparently, even if we replaced all the plastic used for that kind of thing with seaweed, we’d barely make a dent in the ocean's seaweed supply - we'd use less than 1% of it.

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