this post was submitted on 06 May 2025
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251
Judge cautions prosecutors in healthcare exec murder trial to refrain from public comments (www.theguardian.com)
submitted 3 days ago by gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world
16 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Archived at https://web.archive.org/web/20250506120551/https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/may/05/luigi-mangione-trial-proescutors-public-comments

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[–] nkat2112@sh.itjust.works 129 points 3 days ago (2 children)

If I understand correctly, such statements harmful to a defendant's team in a court case were already made by law enforcement on television.

And why should I assume that law enforcement didn't botch-up their investigation or taken questionable measures just to have a suspect charged, given that they were reckless on television?

I do not believe Mr. Mangione - who I am personally convinced is innocent - can have a fair trial.

[–] nimble@lemmy.blahaj.zone 47 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Well said.

I do not believe Mr. Mangione - who I am personally convinced is innocent - can have a fair trial.

This sums up my feelings nicely

[–] stoicmaverick@lemmy.world -1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

To both of you: Given the specificity of your wording, I am honestly curious, do you believe he did not pull the trigger, or do you believe that he did, but is free of wrongdoing? There's a big difference between the two views.

[–] nimble@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I do not believe he pulled the trigger. It doesn't look like the same guy, and given all the planning that went into this, i don't think they would've caught the killer with the murder weapon and a manifesto. It seems too good to be true in a crime that frankly risked starting a class war. They needed to find someone to blame fast and that's why we hear about so many issues with how the case has been handled. The media is portraying this as Luigi did in fact murder brian thompson but i believe in innocence until proven guilty, and based on current evidence i have no reason to believe Luigi is the shooter. Frankly, no one should. The fact that people widely accept that he did (or joke that he didn't) shows how difficult it will be to have a fair trial.

[–] stoicmaverick@lemmy.world -2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I think you're confusing the ideas of "Innocent until proven guilty" with "reasonable suspicion". I hesitate to ask, but, do you think OJ did it?

[–] nimble@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 2 days ago

I'm not confusing anything. It's not my job to investigate or prove who murdered Brian thompson. And when there are many red flags about the case then i think everyone should be skeptical. Law enforcement can use reasonable suspicion to further their investigation and to detain someone while the public should await trial to form their opinion about a very political case

Why would you hesitake to ask? I never looked into OJ so don't have an opinion. I only care about Brian thompson's case because the widespread political issue directly tied to it.

[–] blakenong@lemmings.world 24 points 3 days ago (1 children)

When the police do sketchy stuff it does throw a wrench in the legitimacy of the accusation. And, should he actually be innocent, they’re just letting the killer get farther away.

[–] Zorsith@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Its not about justice, its about making a show of someone being punished.

We're living in Fahrenheit 451; if you cant catch the real murderer, just pick someone vaguely the same proportions that's already on a list and punish them instead; the public doesn't care or need to know, as long as they get their entertainment.

If Luigi had been alone and/or not in a public space when they found him, he would have had a bullet in the head from the cops; case closed.

[–] blakenong@lemmings.world 5 points 3 days ago

The real killer was probably doing a hit.

But since they made such a big deal out of it, we will know a lot about the level of surveillance they actually have…. Which is apparently not much.

[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 13 points 2 days ago

This whole thing just reminds me of Fahrenheit 451.

The main character Guy Montague was being chased by the police but they couldn't find him so they shot down an innocent person that they labeled the suspect so the populace wouldn't see the police as incompetent.

People always bring up 1984 but they need to read and bring up Fahrenheit 451.

[–] gabbath@lemmy.world 36 points 2 days ago

In a world where Kyle fucking Rittenhouse was found not guilty, the flimsy evidence they have on Luigi should never stick. But the goal here is a swift win, so they're trying to frame an innocent man and make him an example.

[–] aphlamingphoenix@lemm.ee 10 points 2 days ago

So I just finished reading the motion filed by Luigi's lawyer and it kind of sounds like this warning might be in response to that. One argument put forward is that the only evidence of an attempt to cause fear in a generalized population (justifying the terrorism charges) is actually information that the police themselves publicized. The lawyer argues that the only atmosphere of fear in the case was created by the police. So it seems the judge may want to remind officials that they are fucking this up by bragging about it so loudly.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 45 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I think it’s a very strong case in terms of him doing it. I think it’s going to be hard for them to argue that it wasn’t him or that it was unintentional,” Rahmani said. But, in the public perception, “he is a very sympathetic accused murderer”.

They don't have to prove he didn't do it...

The government has to prove he did. And they have to provide evidence and disclose how they got that evidence.

With the pressure on finding someone, it's likely they didn't obtain all the evidence legally. If they used illegal means to find him, Im pretty sure that taints any evidence found on him.

The article makes it sound like jury nullification is his only shot, but there's a very good chance the prosecution can't use a lot of their evidence unless they make up a very good story about how they might have legally got it.

[–] Boddhisatva@lemmy.world 17 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

If they used illegal means to find him, Im pretty sure that taints any evidence found on him.

Possibly. It's called The Fruit of the Poisonous Tree doctrine. If the police obtained evidence illegally, or derived evidence from other evidence that was illegally obtained, it can be ruled inadmissible by the judge. There are exceptions shown in the link. One of the big exceptions is the first listed. If it was discovered from a source independent of the illegal activity it can be allowed.

Police are aware of the risks of tainted evidence so they will sometimes cover for it with a parallel construction investigation.

Parallel construction occurs when the federal government learns of criminal activity through one source but then gives the information to federal law enforcement agencies to “reconstruct” the criminal investigation so that the source of that second investigation differs from the original source.

So, let's say the police arrest a suspect and find compelling evidence against the suspect at the location. That evidence might be suppressed if it turns out that, for example, the police found out where the suspect was going to be via an illegal wire tap. If it weren't for the illegally obtained location information, the police would not have obtained that other evidence. Rather than admitting in court that this is how they found the suspect, one of the investigators might call in, or arrange for someone else to call in an anonymous tip about the suspect's location to other investigators that don't know about the illegal wire tap. The police then exclude the real origin of the knowledge of the suspects location from court filings.

Illegal, very possibly. Likely, also very possible.

[–] krashmo@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

I wonder what sort of illegal methods of search they could be concealing? A system capable of finding someone under those circumstances would need to have vast resources available to it and we would likely be aware of its existence through whistleblower revelations if not directly. However, since we don't know of anything like that I find this theory to be (N)ot (S)pecifically (A)chievable.

[–] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

The government has to prove he did. And they have to provide evidence and disclose how they got that evidence.

Yep.

With the pressure on finding someone, it's likely they didn't obtain all the evidence legally.

Good thing the same standard doesn't apply to you.