this post was submitted on 15 Feb 2025
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Thousands of artists are urging the auction house Christie’s to cancel a sale of art created with artificial intelligence, claiming the technology behind the works is committing “mass theft”.

The Augmented Intelligence auction has been described by Christie’s as the first AI-dedicated sale by a major auctioneer and features 20 lots with prices ranging from $10,000 to $250,000 for works by artists including Refik Anadol and the late AI art pioneer Harold Cohen.

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[–] perishthethought@lemm.ee 53 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Phrases my friends would never use:

AI Art

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 32 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I prefer the term "AI Fabrications" because of the dual-meaning of fabrication. On one hand it implies industrial fabrication, on the other hand it implies fabrication as in a lie. Because AI is both of those simultaneously. It is industrially fabricated and it is a lie.

[–] sqgl@beehaw.org 10 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

In Croatian (and I suspect many other Slavic languages) art is umjetnost which is a variation of the word umjetno which means artificial.

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[–] millie@beehaw.org 27 points 1 week ago (2 children)

It would be kind of funny to offer AI schlock for sale and then give the buyer a framed copy of the prompt instead of the print itself

[–] Wrufieotnak@feddit.org 12 points 1 week ago

I would respect that as a kind of performance art.

[–] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Prompt, seed, model, LORAs, and better hope it's a sampler that reliably produces the same results each time for the same input as not all of them do.

[–] millie@beehaw.org 14 points 1 week ago

Nah, inability to produce the actual image is the point. All the "artist" did was type in a box, so that's all the purchaser gets.

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[–] ErsatzCoalButter@beehaw.org 15 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I love the high bar of philosophy and taste being set by the discussions here about what is and isn't art, so please don't let this note distract from those.

Joints like Christie's and the stuff they sell is largely a money laundering operation. Without decrying what's coming out of the modern art scene, art collection is where a lot of the capitalists rinse their stolen wealth. There's an entire economy around this practice. Here's a company that will hook you up with the vaults, the lawyers, jewelry to swap, and travel accommodations.

So obviously generative output bots do not make art and- and- BUT ALSO nothing capitalists value is real, they only believe in their fiat. It's all always just money crime game to them. Always.

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[–] Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 13 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Don't see a problem tbh, value is set by what someone will pay. If someone will pay for it then it is worth that.

[–] SARGE@startrek.website 16 points 1 week ago

The problem is not the price.

The problem is Ai "art" is inherently stealing the work of other people, and not in a way that a painter can say they were influenced by some other painter.

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[–] lnxtx@feddit.nl 12 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Artists are inspired by each other.
If I draw something being inspired by e. g. Bansky, and it's not a direct copy - it's legal.

We don't live in a vacuum.

[–] peanuts4life@lemmy.blahaj.zone 26 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Counterpoints:

Artists also draw distinctions between inspiration and ripping off.

The legality of an act has no bearing on its ethics or morality.

The law does not protect machine generated art.

Machine learning models almost universally utilize training data which was illegally scraped off the Internet (See meta's recent book piracy incident).

Uncritically conflating machine generated art with actual human inspiration, while career artist generally lambast the idea, is not exactly a reasonable stance to state so matter if factly.

It's also a tacit admission that the machine is doing the inspiration, not the operator. The machine which is only made possible by the massive theft of intellectual property.

The operator contributes no inspiration. They only provide their whims and fancy with which the machine creates art through mechanisms you almost assuredly don't understand. The operator is no more an artist than a commissioner of a painting. Except their hired artist is a bastard intelligence made by theft.

And here they are, selling it for thousands.

[–] pupbiru@aussie.zone 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (5 children)

It's also a tacit admission that the machine is doing the inspiration, not the operator. The machine which is only made possible by the massive theft of intellectual property.

hard disagree on that one… the look of the image was, but the inspiration itself was derived from a prompt: the idea is the human; the expression of the idea in visual form is the computer. we have no problem saying a movie is art, and crediting much of that to the director despite the fact that they were simply giving directions

The legality of an act has no bearing on its ethics or morality.

Except their hired artist is a bastard intelligence made by theft.

you can’t on 1 hand say that legality is irrelevant and then call it when you please

or argue that a human takes inputs from their environment and produces outputs in the same way. if you say a human in an empty white room and exposed them only to copyright content and told them to paint something, they’d also entirely be basing what they paint on those works. we wouldn’t have an issue with that

what’s the difference between a human and an artificial neural net? because i disagree that there’s something special or “other” to the human brain that makes it unable to be replicated. i’m also not suggesting that these work in the same way, but we clearly haven’t defined what creativity is, and certainly haven’t written off that it could be expressed by a machine

in modern society we tend to agree that Duchamp changed the art world with his piece “Fountain” - simply a urinal signed “R. Mutt”… he didn’t sculpt it himself, he did barely anything to it. the idea is the art, not the piece itself. the idea was the debate that it sparked, the questions with no answer. if a urinal purchased from a hardware store can be art, then the idea expressed in a prompt can equally be art

and to be clear, i’m not judging any of these particular works based on their merits - i haven’t seen them, and i don’t believe any of them should be worth $250k… but also, the first piece of art created by AI: perhaps its value is not in the image itself, but the idea behind using AI and its status as “first”. the creativity wasn’t the image; the creativity and artistic intent was the process

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[–] Zaleramancer@beehaw.org 12 points 1 week ago (12 children)

The question about if AI art is art often fixates on some weird details that I either don't care about or I think are based on fallacious reasoning. Like, I don't like AI art as a concept and I think it's going to often be bad art (I'll get into that later), but some of the arguments I see are centered in this strangely essentialist idea that AI art is worse because of an inherent lack of humanity as a central and undifferentiated concept. That it lacks an essential spark that makes it into art. I'm a materialist, I think it's totally possible for a completely inhuman machine to make something deeply stirring and beautiful- the current trends are unlikely to reliably do that, but I don't think there's something magic about humans that means they have a monopoly on beauty, creativity or art.

However, I think a lot of AI art is going to end up being bad. This is especially true of corporate art, and less so for individuals (especially those who already have an art background). Part of the problem is that AI art will always lack the intense level of intentionality that human-made art has, simply by the way it's currently constructed. A probabilistic algorithm that's correlating words to shapes will always lack the kind of intention in small detail that a human artist making the same piece has, because there's no reason for the small details other than either probabilistic weight or random element. I can look at a painting someone made and ask them why they picked the colors they did. I can ask why they chose the lighting, the angle, the individual elements. I can ask them why they decided to use certain techniques and not others, I can ask them about movements that they were trying to draw inspiration from or emotions they were trying to communicate.

The reasons are personal and build on the beauty of art as a tool for communication in a deep, emotional and intimate way. A piece of AI art using the current technology can't have that, not because of some essential nature, but just because of how it works. The lighting exists as it does because it is the most common way to light things with that prompt. The colors are the most likely colors for the prompt. The facial expressions are the most common ones for that prompt. The prompt is the only thing that really derives from human intention, the only thing you can really ask about, because asking, "Hey, why did you make the shoes in this blue? Is it about the modern movement towards dull, uninteresting colors in interior decoration, because they contrast a lot with the way the rest of the scene is set up," will only ever give you the fact that the algorithm chose that.

Sure, you can make the prompts more and more detailed to pack more and more intention in there, but there are small, individual elements of visual art that you can't dictate by writing even to a human artist. The intentionality lost means a loss of the emotional connection. It means that instead of someone speaking to you, the only thing you can reliably read from AI art is what you are like. It's only what you think.

I'm not a visual artist, but I am a writer, and I have similar problems with LLMs as writing tools because of it. When I do proper writing, I put so much effort and focus into individual word choices. The way I phrase things transforms the meaning and impact of sentences, the same information can be conveyed so many ways to completely different focus and intended mood.

A LLM prompt can't convey that level of intentionality, because if it did, you would just be writing it directly.

I don't think this makes AI art (or AI writing) inherently immoral, but I do think it means it's often going to be worse as an effective tool of deep, emotional connection.

I think AI art/writing is bad because of capitalism, which isn't an inherent factor. If we lived in fully-automated gay luxury space communism, I would have already spent years training an LLM as a next-generation oracle for tabletop-roleplaying games I like. They're great for things like that, but alas, giving them money is potentially funding the recession of arts as a profession.

[–] FarceOfWill@infosec.pub 8 points 1 week ago (2 children)

It's not any of those reasons, it's because it can only exist by being trained on human authored art and in many cases you can extract a decentish copy of the original if you can specify enough tags that piece was labelled with.

The ai model is a lossy database of art and using them to launder copyright violations should be illegal, is immorally stealing from the creator, and chills future artists by taking away the revenue they need while learning. This leads to ai model art having not enough future work to train on and the stagnation of the human experience as making beautiful things is not profitable enough, or doesn't give the profit to those with power.

[–] Zaleramancer@beehaw.org 4 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I did close my post by saying capitalism is responsible for the problems, so I think we're on the same page about why it's unethical to engage with AI art.

I am interested in engaging in a discourse not about that (I am very firmly against the proliferation of AI because of the many and varied bad social implications), but I am interested in working on building better arguments against it.

I have seen multiple people across the web making the argument that AI art is bad not just because of the fact that it will put artists out of work, but because the product is, itself, lacking in some vital and unnameable human spark or soul. Which is a bad argument, since it means the argument becomes about esoteric philosophy and not the practical argument that if we do nothing art stops being professionally viable, killing many people and also crushing something beautiful and wonderful about life forever.

Rich people ruin everything, is what I want the argument to be.

So I'm really glad you're making that argument! Thanks, honestly, it's great to see it!

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[–] blakenong@lemmings.world 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Since art has been used to funnel large sums of money, I doubt they plan to cancel that.

[–] perishthethought@lemm.ee 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yeah, I don't care what they do in the name of commerce. I just wish they wouldn't call it art.

[–] blakenong@lemmings.world 2 points 1 week ago

They don’t have to pay the middle man now!

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