this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/21396125

Stephen Starr in Hamtramck, Michigan
Mon 14 Oct 2024 11.00 EDT

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[–] zbyte64@awful.systems 1 points 10 months ago (4 children)

She had so many chances to make this election easier. Could have had a Palestinian talk during the DNC, and that would have likely changed this story.

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[–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 1 points 10 months ago

Not just in Michigan ;)

[–] AidsKitty@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Cant blame them, Biden\Harris are literally sending Israel the bombs.

[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 1 points 10 months ago

Yeah but if you don't vote Kamala, Trump will hurt Palestinians even harder and it will be your fault 🤡

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[–] apotheotic@beehaw.org 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Context:

  • I am not an american, so there may be some missing knowledge for me about the american electoral system.
  • I abhor Israel's genocide in Gaza, and I abhor the biden administration's support of (and Harris' seeming continued support of) the genocide.
  • My understanding is that Trump is just as, if not more supportive of the genocide in Gaza, and on top of this has his sights on doing some truly terrible things in the US re: minorities, trans rights, etc

So with that context, my question is thus: It seems clear that Trump wouldn't change anything about the genocide in Gaza, and that he would bring more evil than the current status quo. So if you're an american voter, you obviously can't let Trump get in. But, Harris is gross to vote for as well, even if its a "lesser of the two evils" thing. What do you do? As far as I understand its basically one or the other, you dont really have any third party to vote for right?

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It's more of a difference in practical values. At what point does the "lesser evil" itself become intolerable evil? Some people insist that you should vote for Hitler over 101% Hitler, that there is no intolerable level as long as there is a miniscule difference. Others have firm red lines in the sand, like genocide, where they advocate for abandoning them and pushing as hard as you can, even advocating for moves outside the electoral system like revolution.

[–] apotheotic@beehaw.org 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

So to put this in more practical terms, one would neither vote for Hitler or 101% Hitler, and instead vote for The Other Person who Isn't Much Hitler At All, or abstain or something, and protest and take action in other ways?

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 10 months ago

The "correct" answer is to vote for "Not Hitler" and join a revolutionary org, such as FRSO or PSL in the US.

[–] ResoluteCatnap@lemmy.ml 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Your understanding is solid for not being an American. You're not missing anything substantial-- people who are voting 3rd party think that the "dems need to learn" and that the dems can't do whatever they want so their vote is supposed to be a punishment. But as you point out that if they really cared about this issue then they would vote for Harris because trump will do worse on this issue and all around. The time to make changes to our political system is not when you vote for president, but in the years leading up to that.

In other words, people voting for 3rd party or Trump over this issue are morons. It sucks that our political system is what it is but if you knowingly vote for anything other than the candidate promising not-fascism, then you are supporting fascism.

I just hope enough democrats understand this. I'm not happy with gaza either but our country is still recovering from the first shit show presidency of Trump, and fascists are closely watching this election.

[–] jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

In other words, people voting for 3rd party or Trump over this issue are morons

incorrect you're missing context of reliably blue states. I most certainly dont need to vote for democrats and can essentially do what I want w/ respect to the presidential ticket.

All the nonsense from the liberal idiots in the democratic party miss this critical contextual bit of information. I happily vote 3rd party whenever there is one that aligns more closely with my goals. its just rare one does; because it simply doesn't matter in my state for the outcome.

My ballot typically goes:

  • 3rd party for pres
  • dem/independents for most local positions

all this blue no matter who are just brain dead lunacy by the party is essentially: The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final and most essential command.

Hopefully some day we'll be able to have reasonable conversations about the toxicity of the democratic party but we just are not there yet and unfortunately the Ukrainians and Palestinians are paying the price in blood and harris doesnt have the backbone to challenge her corporate owners. Biden lost my support when he broke the train union strike. I believe he and harris would have broken the port workers strike as well if it wasn't a month before the election.

things that prevent me from voting for harris:

  • wont enforce the leahy laws with israel. israel absolutely does have a right to defend itself, it doesn't have a right to be supported by the US tax payers. if the MIC wants money there is a far more moral war going on we can increase support for. (HUGE red flag)
  • wont commit to keeping Ms khan. (HUGE red flag)
  • i don't trust her w/ respect to union support. I believe she'll break unions just like biden did. which is why he lost my support.
  • her continuous attempts to gaslight the american people over biden's mental decline makes her untrustworthy as an individual.

until then I'll continue advocating for and campaigning for election reform and primarying useless democrats. She could probably swing my vote if she commits to khan and never breaking a strike as those are important to the health of our country and economy but at this point its clear she wont shift.

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[–] graeghos_714@lemmy.world 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Both parties are beholden to Israel and the power of AIPAC

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago

Other way around. Both parties support Israel because Israel helps secure the Petro-Dollar, by which the US dominates the Global South with predatory IMF loans.

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