this post was submitted on 24 Jan 2025
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(page 3) 35 comments
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[–] sunbrrnslapper@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago (4 children)

I do wonder what the alternative is... Would that be growing/hunting your own food and making your own clothes and building your own shelter? I don't know about anyone else, but I would not live long in that scenario.

[–] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 18 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The context is that there is enough wealth in most western countries that not everyone must work to survive. Working should be for having access to more things that just surviving, and not everyone should be required to work all the time just to survive.

Basic needs are basic, like food, shelter, and healthcare. If everyone had access to those basic things they would be free even if they need to work to attain more.

[–] earphone843@sh.itjust.works -4 points 1 week ago (6 children)

Someone still has to work for those things to be produced.

[–] thisfro@slrpnk.net 14 points 1 week ago (3 children)

True, but how many people actually work to make that happen?

Most people I know work for a company that works for a company to increase the profit of another company.

[–] earphone843@sh.itjust.works -1 points 6 days ago (15 children)

A lot of those businesses still need to exist for society to function. They could be restructured into non-profits, but they'll still exist.

There will always be a need for jobs that people aren't going to just do for the hell of it. No one enjoys breaking their back harvesting crops or digging ditches.

I'm not saying the current system is any good, but the idea of no one having to work if they don't want to is not obtainable without some serious advances in robotics.

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[–] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

There is a vast gap between "most people need to work for everyone in society to live comfortably" and "every individual needs their own personal income to survive".

[–] nomy@lemmy.zip 15 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The amount of brainwashing and propaganda is incredible. People actually just can't imagine a world where they're not toiling for their bosses.

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[–] ieatpwns@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

While I don’t disagree. there don’t have to be dragons hoarding all the wealth making us fight among ourselves to survive

[–] damnedfurry@lemmy.world 0 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (3 children)

An asset appreciating in value does not deprive anyone else of money in their wallet.

If you bought a rookie baseball card for $5, the player had a great year and now the card's worth $100, your net worth increased by $95. But who is down $95 as a result of your card becoming more valuable?

Nobody. Wealth is not zero sum. And the vast majority of increases in wealth among the wealthiest is newly-created wealth. You literally can't become a billionaire in a human lifetime simply by short-changing your workers. A linear increase like that just will not get you there.

Also, wealth in the form of purchased investments into businesses that run within the economy, is literally the opposite of hoarding. If you buy things with your money, you're not hoarding your money.

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[–] Elrecoal19_0@lemmy.world 14 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (6 children)

Surely there isn't an economic system in which people don't work for a top 1%, but for everyone, you could say a communal, or a social, economic system...

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[–] rockerface@lemm.ee 5 points 1 week ago (4 children)

The alternative is all the wealth and resources hoarded by top 1% are shared among people so that everyone has access to basic stuff like food, shelter and healthcare regardless of whether they're able to work.

Which isn't to say this would be easy to achieve, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

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[–] hansolo@lemm.ee 10 points 1 week ago (5 children)

You should tell this to subsistence farmers living in Sub-saharan Africa that farm nearly every calorie they consume. It's a negotiation between them, the earth, and the uncaring sky. Same as its been for millennia. No rich people necessarily involved.

Are they free because no rich people are involved?

[–] Rooskie91@discuss.online 81 points 1 week ago (3 children)

We live in an economically connected world. An argument can be made that they're forced to subsistence farm in a backbreaking and cruel way due to the natural resources of their country extracted by oligarchs that don't even live in Africa.

Wherever poverty exists, rich people are involved by their sheer unwillness to share enough to meet everyone's basic needs.

[–] hansolo@lemm.ee -2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

That really isn't the case for large parts of rural Sub-Sahan Africa. For literally millions of people, they are growing crops basically about the same as their ancestors, in the same area. Maybe now they have mobile phones. It was ALWAYS hard labor.

Is everyone in this thread rich American college kids or something? Why do you all think the natural state of the world is Utopian paradise where leopards and impallas are best friends?

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[–] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 17 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

Is every person in those communities required to work to eat and have shelter, or does the community take care of those that are unable to contribute labor due to health conditions/old age?

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[–] voxthefox@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I can imagine by some stretch you can still blame the rich, maybe without the rich people they'd have more access to better farmland, cheap water, etc.

[–] hansolo@lemm.ee 0 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Lol, so desperate to be the victim of an imaginary rich person that you don't even understand that it universally takes work to do things like eat food.

How do you think people got food 10,000 years ago? Or 30,000?

Do you think being a hunter-gatherer society is a vacation? Who were the rich people before money was invented that apparently caused things like drought?

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[–] ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 week ago (5 children)

If you want to simplify the thought experiment, imagine being the only person in existence. You would still need to struggle just to meet the basic needs of survival, but you would definitely not be oppressed.

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[–] Elrecoal19_0@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Rich people are very likely at fault, too, given that shitty countries are handy for cheap labour and materials, like coltan...

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