it's taking more energy to power it than you're getting out of it. (You can build a fusion device on your garage if you're so inclined, though obviously this is much neater than that!)

One viewpoint is that we'll never get clean energy from these devices, not because they won't work, but because you get a lot of neutrons out of these devices. And what do we do with neutrons? We either bash them into lead and heat stuff up (boring and not a lot of energy), or we use them to breed fissile material, which is a lot more energetically favorable. So basically, the economically sound thing to do is to use your fusion reactor to power your relatively conventional fission reactor. Which is still way better than fossil fuels IMHO, so that's something.

[–] DaTingGoBrrr@lemm.ee 9 points 14 hours ago

Helion has an interesting take on fusion reactors that generate power using electro magnetism and Copenhagen Atomics are trying to create Thorium reactors. I hope they will work better than the boiling they use in tocamac reactors

[–] zurohki@aussie.zone 17 points 19 hours ago (13 children)

It seems like it's probably too late.

Even if we crack fusion power today, I can't see it being deployed cheaply enough and quickly enough to compete with solar/wind+batteries. By the time we could get production fusion plants up and ready to feed power into the grid, it'd be 2050 and nobody would be interested in buying electricity from it.

[–] jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 6 hours ago (7 children)

moar energy! there will never not be an application for energy production. specifically fusion has the benefit of being highly dense large scale production. which makes it attractive on a number of levels.

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[–] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 11 points 11 hours ago (3 children)

Fusion would provide orders of magnitude more power than solar. There's a limit on how much we can practically get from solar, fusion would allow us to exceed that.

[–] zurohki@aussie.zone 2 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

Yeah, but there's no prizes for producing way more power than we use. We're not running out of space to put solar panels or batteries.

[–] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 12 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

'Too much power' has never been an issue, and will likely not be an issue ever with solar. There are multitudes of technologies, especially in industry, that are currently impractical because they would consume too much energy.

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[–] Farvana@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 10 hours ago

In three decades, having a power source that can be placed away from the elements is going to be a very good thing.

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[–] sdfric88@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Long distance transmission creates enormous power wastage, and cities are rarely located in places ideal for large scale wind and solar. Fusion can help deliver power to urban centres, reducing the acreage needed for a solar farm.

There are also inland places in northern latitudes that benefit little from solar. Wind and fusion would be a great energy mix for those places.

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[–] RubberElectrons@lemmy.world 1 points 7 hours ago

Nah, it'd be quite useful for interstellar travel as but one example I'm helping with.

[–] Spacehooks@reddthat.com 5 points 12 hours ago

Maybe for deep sea or space?

[–] Quadhammer@lemmy.world 9 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

What I would like fusion to do is power space ships

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[–] monogram@feddit.nl 1 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

With what infrastructure are we even going to use all this electricity?

[–] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 5 points 8 hours ago

There's a ton of stuff in industry and manufacturing that aren't practical because of energy. A lot of processes could be run cleaner too, leading to better environment practices.

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[–] DaddleDew@lemmy.world 59 points 1 day ago (4 children)

That is one technology that I don't care if China steals secrets to make it happen faster.

[–] pennomi@lemmy.world 77 points 1 day ago

No need!

The data gathered by EAST will support the development of other reactors, both in China and internationally. China is part of the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (ITER) program, which involves dozens of countries, including the U.S., U.K. Japan, South Korea and Russia.

[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 26 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

If we were a smarter society, we’d end our stupid cold war with them and cooperate.

[–] blackluster117@sh.itjust.works 33 points 23 hours ago (4 children)

If they were a more humane society, we likely would.

[–] BigBenis@lemmy.world -2 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

More like if they were willing to embrace capitalistic western values and bend over for America whenever we're feeling frisky

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[–] raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 21 points 23 hours ago (6 children)

More humane like Nazi-America, or more humane like Warcrimes-Russia? Description unclear, please clarify.

[–] thefartographer@lemm.ee 29 points 23 hours ago

More humane like the best of us wish to be and the majority of us never will be

[–] guy@piefed.social 17 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (1 children)

More humane as in respecting human rights I suppose

[–] kugel7c@feddit.org -4 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

Is there a state that is not disrespecting human rights ? I for one haven't heard of any.

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[–] xnx@slrpnk.net -1 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah more humane like Israel… America has been installing dictators all around the world for decades what are you talking about? You think America cares about humanity? You cant even birth a child without a $10,000+ bill.

America cares about moneyyyyy and nothing more

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[–] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 13 points 23 hours ago

Post-scarcity society def scares capitalists.

[–] Dudewitbow@lemmy.zip 12 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

im pretty sure almost unilaterally, every country would like the solution to near infinite energy regardless. its extremely vital if as a species, ever want to start a colony outside of earth.

the only people against it would be those in the pocket of other forms of energy monetary wise.

[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 8 hours ago

Preach.

[–] hmonkey@lemy.lol 69 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Tony Stark was able to build this in a cave!

[–] DaMonsterKnees@lemmy.world 38 points 1 day ago (1 children)

With a box of scraps!

[–] Rhaedas@fedia.io 20 points 23 hours ago

We're not Tony Stark, sir.

[–] thefartographer@lemm.ee 13 points 22 hours ago

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

[–] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 6 points 23 hours ago

Yeah, but Hawk could ride those pipes way better.

[–] JokeDeity@lemm.ee 9 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Can't wait for my Trumper boss to bring this up at work again as "Did you hear China secretly replaced the sun?"

[–] Empricorn@feddit.nl 5 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

That's fucked up. I don't even know my boss's politics, (as it should be). Do you have an HR department? This is a huge liability for your company...

[–] kipo@lemm.ee 2 points 7 hours ago

It should be a huge liability, but the US is a fucked up place. Even “blue” states are full of people at work voraciously politicizing everything, always thinking they are right about everything. These people are everywhere, they lack humility and critical thinking, and they are insufferable.

[–] JokeDeity@lemm.ee 3 points 10 hours ago

Bro this is the American Bible belt, almost every person I've ever directly reported to across a dozen or so jobs, has been the exact same way. I've always known my bosses politics, much to my displeasure, and they've always been extremely conservative, regardless of the field of work.

[–] evujumenuk@lemmy.world -4 points 22 hours ago (4 children)

IIUC the end goal, for any fusion reactor, is to heat up water and drive a steam turbine.

Imagine you could drive a steam turbine at zero cost. What happens if just keeping that turbine running costs more in upkeep than e.g. solar panels do overall?

Is there really much of an economic case for infinite energy on demand (and that is if fusion can be made to work in not just the base load case) if we have infinite energy at home already?

[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 9 points 12 hours ago

The economic case for infinite power is that it is infinite power, Karen.

Not everything needs to be a fucking profitable business, god damn ferengi idiots.

[–] FooBarrington@lemmy.world 7 points 11 hours ago

Fusion reactors don't necessarily need to heat water. I'm aware of at least one company that is developing a power plant which primarily uses induction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helion_Energy

[–] IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works 19 points 22 hours ago

Even if not a single residential property gets hooked up to a fusion generator, there will still be an economic case for fusion, especially as you move away from the equator. Industrial applications require an enormous amount of energy, and with solar power having a hard limit on the amount of energy you can get from a square meter, you'd have to have square miles of panels and batteries to keep one plant going.

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