this post was submitted on 18 Jan 2025
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Vincent Oriedo, a biotechnology scientist, had just such a question. What lessons have been learned, he asked, from Harris’s defeat in this vital swing county in a crucial battleground state that voted for Joe Biden four years ago, and how are the Democrats applying them?

“They did not answer the question,” he said.

“It tells me that they haven’t learned the lessons and they have their inner state of denial. I’ve been paying careful attention to the influencers within the Democratic party. Their discussions have centred around, ‘If only we messaged better, if only we had a better candidate, if only we did all these superficial things.’ There is really a lack of understanding that they are losing their base, losing constituencies they are taking for granted.”

“We have set ourselves up for generational loss because we keep promoting from within leaders that that do not criticise the moneyed interests. They refuse to take a hard look at what Americans actually believe and meet those needs.”

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[–] mlg@lemmy.world 33 points 2 days ago
[–] Suavevillain@lemmy.world 65 points 2 days ago (7 children)

Trump pretty much won on optics alone and positioning himself once again as looking out for people despite not being true at all. Dems didn't want to address people's issues with the economy and did the weird thing of tap dancing for right Dick Cheney voters who don't exist.

Just stand for something, even if the risk of loss is high. It pays off in the end.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago

Trump won on optics because the optics on the ground matched what he was saying. Democrats insisted the economy was fine when people were hurting, and lost because of that.

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[–] kandoh@reddthat.com 58 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (6 children)

Every breakdown and postmortem i see make it pretty clear:

If you paid close attention and were well-informed, you voted for Kamala.

If you believe things aren't true or didn't pay close attention, you voted for Trump as a sort of totem for wealth and success, not because of a specific policy of his you like. He just represents making lots of money to you.

Any grappling with what went wrong or improvements needed within the DNC first needs to reckon with the reality that people aren't seeing left-wing messaging and are instead exposed to a fake version of leftism pushed constantly by right-wing actors on social media.

[–] firadin@lemmy.world 26 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Everyone complains about poor Democratic messaging but when are we going to admit that as long as Republicans own all major media platforms, any messaging by Democrats is going to be distorted into nonsense by the media?

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[–] Zetta@mander.xyz 26 points 2 days ago (4 children)

I think a lot of people have problems with the Democratic Party being bought by the billionaires as well ...and supporting genocidal regimes.

I voted for Harris but you boiled it down to a few lines and missed a lot of reasons why I think a significant amount of Americans didn't vote at all.

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[–] futatorius@lemm.ee 7 points 2 days ago

They didn't vote for Trump as a totem of wealth and success. They voted for him as their embodiment of rage, performative cruelty and payback against all the people in the US who make them feel like backwards losers. They identify with him because he's a raving asshole, and they instinctively kiss his ass because he presents himself as a grotesque WWE caracature of the rich.

[–] PlagueShip@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago

Left wing messaging is all focused on logic and targeted to the well-informed. They have no emotional message for the poorly educated, and that's a stupid mistake. I thought these were supposed to be the smart people? Zero EQ.

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[–] negativeyoda@lemmy.world 28 points 2 days ago (4 children)

The small concession is that Trump is almost undoubtedly going to trip over his dick, so we'll probably end up with a blue wave of some sort in 2028. Nothing will change for the DNC and no lessons will be learned, so 2032 looks bleak as shit.

We need to understand that Dems are not going to fight for anyone besides their donors. They'd rather lose than take pointers from someone like Bernie

[–] futatorius@lemm.ee 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

From now on, the elections are rigged. The media is almost entirely fascist- or oligarch-controlled (to the extent that there's a difference). The courts are so corrupted that there will be no justice from them until they are purged.

But yeay, just sit there complacently and wait for the pendulum to swing. That'll work.

[–] Kyrgizion@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago

Lol @ the people who think they can vote themselves back out of this mess. Trump made it quite clear that "You won't have to vote anymore" after this term. I for one believe him. Even if he dies you'll just get saddled with one of his sons, daughter, son-in-law, ...

[–] MataVatnik@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I've been hearing blue wave since 2016, it's almost 10 years now. Where is this blue wave, democrats barely got majorities, but hardly what I would call a wave. It's not going to happen in the next midterms, just another razor thin majority where some of the supposed Democrats vote alongside republicams to fuck over the people.

[–] PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@feddit.uk 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

tbf, the majorities might have been thin but don't sniff at the fact that the Dems toppled an incumbent president AND got the house AND got the senate in 2020.

That is pretty unusual for American politics

[–] Krauerking@lemy.lol 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

don't worry, we can severely underestimate the enemy with no repercussions as the Democrats will be automatically winners next time without having to change tactics at all.

[–] negativeyoda@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Ah. Yes. It is my fault and I'll be the one fucking us as if I have any say in the DNC's policy since they listened to the concerns of people like me except not at all. At this point the democrats are the enemy too, dingus

I'm just editorilizing and am along for the shitty ride, homey. I don't have control of the train and there are no brakes even if I did...

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

we’ll probably end up with a blue wave of some sort in 2028

Don't worry, that will get fucked up, too. A bunch of blue dogs who the DNC supports will win and they'll claim that it's a evidence that progressives can't win.

I've been through this bullshit enough times to have learned the pattern

[–] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I’ve been through this bullshit enough times to have learned the pattern

Started paying attenion since 2012, could vote in 2016. I know the pattern too well, the gaslighting doesn't work anymore.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I had political awareness starting in 1990 and it's been the same ever since then.

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[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 49 points 3 days ago (14 children)

In a capitalist society, the role of government should be to protect citizens from corporations.

If nobody is willing to do that, what use are they?

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[–] moitoi@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 2 days ago

Don't worry too much, it's the same in France. A whole side of the politic is in denial.

[–] Stern@lemmy.world 58 points 3 days ago

We have set ourselves up for generational loss because we keep promoting from within leaders that that do not criticise the moneyed interests

Evergreen quote-

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair

[–] rayyy@lemmy.world 16 points 2 days ago (7 children)

Corporations and Republicans control the media. Putin deployed psyops on the social media of the bar room and bowling alley crowd. They controlled the narrative and will continue to control it until people wake up and realize they have become wage slaves who have a shit-hole standard of living.

[–] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 days ago

If Democrats hadn't made a bunch of unnecessary and unforced errors, then we could blame it on the corpos and the Russians.

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[–] Whirling_Cloudburst@lemmy.world 112 points 3 days ago (3 children)

People want real fucking change. One man stood up against a massive evil health insurance company and regular people from all sides of the political spectrum support him.

Dems could have won if they were willing to do the same and no one would even need to be hurt to do it.

Naturally, there are a host of other problems mentioned in this thread. The trouble is that there is too much free $peech from the ruling class in politics.

[–] oakey66@lemmy.world 55 points 3 days ago (15 children)

I think for people like me, the biggest fuck you was from Obama. He ran on hope and change. He ran on at least a public option. And he went into the office and literally shut down the ground operation that swept him into his position and then basically spent 8 years appeasing Republicans despite the fact that people wanted transformational change. That's why they picked him over Clinton. He delivered Romneycare, bank bailouts, and drone wars.

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[–] kipo@lemm.ee 33 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Left vs right or democrat vs republican — that framing is a distraction in this political reality. The war is between the 99% and the 1%. It’s the working class vs the billionaire class. Your republican neighbor may be a MAGA religious crazy, voting against his financial interests, but he’s been successfully manipulated by a corrupt party controlled by billionaires. Your other neighbor may ‘vote blue no matter who’, ignoring or ignorant to the fact that most democrats at the state and federal level are also influenced or bought by corporate interests and the 1%. These neighbors are clearly not the same, but they are both supporting the interests and agenda of a billionaire class that is oppressing them.

That is not to say that republicans or religious extremism are not threats — they very much are — but they have been allowed to gain power due to a broken and corrupt system of government.

The system is broken because unlimited money gets funneled into politics. It’s destroyed our checks and balances, as well as the incentive structure for our judges and our representatives — most of whom no longer have a primary interest in representing the 99% of us. We are being taxed, robbed, poisoned, oppressed and enslaved by our own government, without even proper representation to show for it.

We cannot expect that our elected representatives will act in our best interests; they require our constant input and scrutiny of their actions. Either we as a people become more involved with politics at all levels of government, or we start a revolution. The problem of corruption in all levels of our government will not be solved by the corrupted. A continuation and increase of wealth inequality will destroy this country.

The corporate-backed fascist MAGA-America regime starts tomorrow, but we are not powerless. The 99% has power. We must come together, organize, educate, exercise empathy and patience with one another, and take action; we can take back control. We have to.

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[–] kescusay@lemmy.world 123 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (32 children)

While that's true, choosing to vote for Trump, a third-party, or not at all is like saying, "I don't like this ham sandwich and I don't like my sandwich choices... so I'm going to eat this dog-turds-and-radioactive-glass-shards sandwich instead!"

This country is fucked.

Edit: Rather than respond below to every comment, thought I'd clarify a few things here.

  1. I never said Democrats didn't fuck up. They certainly did.
  2. But - and this is important - we can't ignore the roles that racism, sexism, and above all misinformation played. To pretend there was none, and that vast swaths of the electorate didn't fall for it, would be disingenuous.

Democrats have moved to the right, and hurt themselves doing so. That is true. But they are still objectively superior to Republicans in every conceivable way. People who voted Republican voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces party because they were angry about Democrats being imperfect, and their faces will be eaten.

[–] FaceDeer@fedia.io 154 points 3 days ago (34 children)

You're missing the lesson too, ironically.

The voters didn't like what the Democrats were offering them, they wanted change, and they wanted it badly enough that they went ahead and ate that dog-turd-and-glass-sandwich.

You're saying "they shouldn't have eaten that, the sandwich the Democrats were offering was better." Okay, well, they did it anyway. So you're wrong. The Democrats were wrong. They've been wrong multiple times now. They're doing the "Am I so out of touch? No. It's the voters who are wrong." Meme.

America's a democracy. The voters aren't wrong, as much as you might personally disagree with their choice. If you want a different government you have to offer them one that they'll vote for. That may require some compromises, but that's part of democracy.

I hope that they get it this time. This is the second time in recent memory that they've made this mistake. Even Biden's election was closer than it should have been. I really hope that the DNC gets its head out of its ass and cleans house, but articles like this are disheartening.

[–] Majorllama@lemmy.world 76 points 3 days ago (36 children)

I live in a deep blue state. Family is all very blue. They have learned absolutely nothing. They all think what the Democrats did was perfect. Kamala was flawless. She didn't get elected because America is racist AND sexist.

They genuinely believe that there was nothing they could have done to improve.

I think they are gonna have to learn this lesson a few more times before they pull their heads outta their ass finally. I hope.

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[–] MellowYellow13@lemmy.world 26 points 3 days ago (7 children)

Neoliberalism is done, it's fucked. The liberals wanted and thought they could pull another Bernie and people would just go with it, fuck that.

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[–] Draegur@lemm.ee 17 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The Democrat aristocracy do not care about winning.

They only care about marketing the disaster of their losses so that they can launder billions of dollars in "vote blue" spam campaigns.

All those donations are going somewhere - to "consultancy firms". To "ad agencies". And then they get to enjoy kickbacks from this mutual relationship.

THEY DON'T NEED TO WIN TO RAKE IN BILLIONS.

and so they don't even try.

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