this post was submitted on 13 Jan 2025

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348

Immutable Distro Opinions (www.linuxfordevices.com)

submitted 1 day ago by Kroxx@lemm.ee to c/linux@lemmy.ml

221 comments fedilink hide all child comments

I recently took up Bazzite from mint and I love it! After using it for a few days I found out it was an immutable distro, after looking into what that is I thought it was a great idea. I love the idea of getting a fresh image for every update, I think for businesses/ less tech savvy people it adds another layer of protection from self harm because you can't mess with the root without extra steps.

For anyone who isn't familiar with immutable distros I attached a picture of mutable vs immutable, I don't want to describe it because I am still learning.

My question is: what does the community think of it?

Do the downsides outweigh the benefits or vice versa?

Could this help Linux reach more mainstream audiences?

Any other input would be appreciated!

(page 2) 50 comments

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[–] lnxtx@feddit.nl 135 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Immutable, doesn't mean extreme secure. It's a false sense of security.
It could be more secure.
But during a runtime, it is possible to overwrite operational memory, mask some syscalls, etc.

That's my 3 cents.

[–] Chewy7324@discuss.tchncs.de 17 points 1 day ago

Fully agreed. On almost any atomic distro, /home/user is writeable like usual, so any attacker is able to persist itself by editing ~/.bashrc and putting a binary somewhere.

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[–] Grangle1@lemm.ee 20 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I personally vastly prefer mutable distros for my own system, but I understand the appeal for those who like them. As long as mutable distros remain an option I don't mind immutable distros.

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[–] KrispeeIguana@lemmy.ml 66 points 1 day ago (4 children)

It's definitely great for the mainstream. Think of Linus Sebastian who has somehow broken every OS except for SteamOS.

It's not great for me who uses Arch Linux btw with the expectation that if the system doesn't break on its own, then I will break it myself.

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[–] kibiz0r@midwest.social 29 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

NixOS is kinda the best of both worlds, because it does everything in a way that is compatible with an immutable fs, but it doesn’t force you into abiding by immutability yourself.

You can always opt into immutability by using Impermanence, but I’ve never seen any reason to.

Edit: That said, the syntax has a steep learning curve and there are tons of annoying edge cases that spawn out of the measures it takes to properly isolate things. It can be a lot to micromanage, so if you’d rather just use your system more than tinker with it, it may not be a good fit.

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[–] shekau@lemmy.today 23 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Immutable ≠ atomic

Bazzite is atomic (not immutable), same with Silverblue and other Fedora variants (they're all atomic, even on their main page it says atomic). It's kinda misleading ngl

[–] Guenther_Amanita@slrpnk.net 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Fedora Atomic IS immutable. Rpm-ostree just layers (or hides) stuff on top of the already existing image. If you layer something, e.g. Nvidia drivers, you still download the same image everyone else uses, but basically compile the driver from fresh and put it on top. And that takes time. This is the reason using rpm-ostree to layer stuff is not recommended.

That's why uBlue exists for example. It gives you a sane start setup, where all drivers are already built in into the image. And then you can either use the clean base and add your own stuff to create your own image, or use already great ones like Bluefin or Bazzite, where everything you want is already included.

Atomic just means that every process is either completed without errors, or not at all. This way, you don't get an half updated and broken system for example in case you loose power. Happened to me quite a few times already, but never with Fedora Atomic.

Pretty much anything outside of /var/ (even /home/ is placed inside /var/) is read-only, and if you want to modify your install, you have to build your own image. Therefore, it is both immutable AND atomic.

That's why I prefer the term "image based"

[–] priapus@sh.itjust.works 3 points 22 hours ago

Immutable ≠ atomic, but they generally come as a package deal. Bazzite, Silverblue, and all those other distro's that call themselves atomic are also immutable. An atomic distro is just one with atomic updates, and an immutable distro is any distro with a read-only core.

These distro's have started mainly calling themselves atomic because they agree that immutable is a poor description that generally confuses users.

[–] Tgo_up@lemm.ee 7 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Isn't that just their nomenclature for immutable?

What's the difference between an atomic distro and an immutable one?

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[–] Chimrod@jlai.lu 8 points 1 day ago

For my needs, I've build a static system with buildroot for a pi zero. No updates, no modifications on the system, no remote access. Some directories are in tempfs, and after a reboot the system is fresh again. when needed, I removed the sd card and copy a new image

I use this board for a pulseaudio/mpd player, it's not intended for a desktop usage, but I'm happy beiing able to configure a system like this one. For me, there is no maintenance, and this is exactly what I wanted

[–] rollmagma@lemmy.world 42 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Immutable vs Mutable

weird        normal

[–] noodles@sh.itjust.works 29 points 1 day ago (1 children)

More like familiar and unfamiliar

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[–] Glitterkoe@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago

I love building my own uBlue image. Tinkering is done in toolbox containers, definite changes are baked into the image. Completely custom (to me) and when you get it right it will just work anywhere. If I would brick my PC/storage I can just boot up another and restore my (back-upped) home dir with very little effort.

[–] sic_semper_tyrannis@lemmy.today 12 points 1 day ago

I think they're great. I've got two Linux newbies running some Ublue variant with no issues

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