this post was submitted on 13 Jan 2025
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submitted 1 day ago by cm0002@lemmy.world to c/memes@lemmy.world
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Fuck Windows AND MacOS honestly

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[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 13 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (2 children)

This was kind of justified for the RAM.

Packaging LPDDR smartphone-style like Apple does makes the traces much shorter, which lets the RAM be faster and lower power. DDR5-5600 DIMMs in "regular" laptops are literally electrically maxed out, and power hogs because they run at crazy voltages for the speed. I would think that much voltage would degrade the CPU too.

Fortunately LPCAMMS solve this!

https://www.anandtech.com/show/21069/modular-lpddr-becomes-a-reality-samsung-introduces-lpcamm-memory-modules

And Apple is totally going to use them since they have no technical excuse anymore... right?

RIGHT!?

[–] Viper_NZ@lemmy.nz 5 points 12 hours ago

The M4 Pro memory is quad channel, so I assume 256 bit.

The two LPCAMMS required for this would require a lot more space.

I give them a pass on memory packaging (but not pricing). SSDs are indefensible though.

[–] cm0002@lemmy.world 3 points 16 hours ago

There's also CUDIMM which one manufacturer is tauting that they'll be releasing a 10000 MT/s soon after having dropped a 9000 model a couple months ago

[–] HEXN3T@lemmy.blahaj.zone 137 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

>See macOS criticism

>Look inside

>Absolutely no mention of macOS because it's actually Apple hardware criticism

[–] lengau@midwest.social 10 points 17 hours ago

Window management on macos is a joke

[–] mlg@lemmy.world 78 points 1 day ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (9 children)

Well since we're here:

You can't easily remap keys

You can scroll right but not left with the track pad

The delete key doesn't do anything in the finder

There was no window snapping until literally a few months ago

The terminal uses cmd+c instead of cmd+shift+c (really should be ctrl but okay)

The dock sucks when using multiple windows per app

Every app relies on an antiquated menu bar at the top which is straight out of 90s UI

The Fn key is where the ctrl key should be and the alt key is where the command key should be (hardware, can't rebind without addon tho)

You can't control audio levels on external displays (because Apple)

Software does not support multiple displays per port and instead can only have one display per port, meaning in order to have two displays you need one cable for hdmi and one cable for USB-C, can't have two of each.

The mouse acceleration curve is a troll for anyone not using the trackpad, and cannot be adjusted aside from being turned off.

There's a ton more but these were just off the top of my head.

EDIT:

Because multiple people mentioned this, I have a big issue with the command/meta key shortcuts because of Apple's braindead placement of their keys on the keyboard, so its a combined hardware software issue.

I otherwise wouldn't mind having to use command except my pinky has to wrap around to hit alt or I have to shift my entire hand to hit command because using a standard keyboard layout like literally every single other keyboard in existence is too much to implement.

spoiler

I'm saying this coming from gaming on ye olde ass cheapo office keyboards for years with no problems, clunky Chinese knockoff keyboards with no problems, and even tiny compressed button keyboards with no problems.

And as others have also shared, I am forced to put up with this crap because of my work. Thankfully, most of my actual work happens inside a nice customized Linux VM, but switching between the host is still required and has been a painful experience. I genuinely gave it a solid shot for several months hoping maybe this was just me never using Mac UI before, but even with all the addons this UI is annoying to use.

I can't run a key rebinder though because the software is essentially a keylogger addon, so coaxing it to run even with IT is a pain, so now I'm probably going to buy another Corsair keyboard I can setup a hardware profile to make this a bit easier when I'm at least docked.

[–] pivot_root@lemmy.world 29 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Not defending Crapple, but in the name of fairness, some of these aren't really accurate unless you're ignoring the spirit of the complaint and being pedantic.

You can scroll right but not left with the track pad

You can scroll up, down, left, and right if you use two fingers to scroll.

The delete key doesn't do anything in the finder

You can use command + backspace to delete selected files.

The terminal uses cmd+c instead of cmd+shift+c (really should be ctrl but okay)

The rest of the OS uses command + c for copying. This is consistent.

Every app relies on an antiquated menu bar at the top which is straight out of 90s UI

This is a personal opinion. It's a valid complaint, but it's not a universal problem.

[–] Benjaben@lemmy.world 8 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (1 children)

Ultimately you may be right about these, but the issue at the heart of them all is that Apple makes their stuff harder to use by people used to other systems, on purpose. They could very easily institute a toggleable setting that'd change the hotkeys to be more like...ya know...every other OS. They could make non-Apple hardware work better (wouldn't be trivial but I'm fairly certain they put effort into making things worse as is), they could make messages and files transfer better between iPhone and Android, etc.

Lots of things they could do to improve the experience of non-mega-fans, but they choose to run their business in a way that punishes anyone who isn't using them for everything. And fuck em for that.

Edit: eh, you did say you weren't actually defending them, so I'm probably just preaching to the choir here. Just grumpy that I have to use one now and they punish me daily for my lack of utter worship lol.

[–] LillyPip@lemmy.ca 5 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Quick quibble:

at the heart of them all is that Apple makes their stuff harder to use by people used to other systems, on purpose.

As a UXD/usability and also software dev in both Windows and Mac OS software, I’d say Apple doesn’t make transition experiences harder on purpose. They try to make it as smooth as possible, whilst working within their own established design & dev standards, which is often the opposite of other companies’ philosophy.

Lesser-sought functions are nearly always changeable in settings or via terminal, and everything is easy to configure from the settings. That’s based on OS standards of not vomiting all options all over the UI (which is the polar opposite of Microsoft, so there’s some adjustment time yes. Seems the OS installer walkthrough/tutorials aren’t that effective.

[–] Benjaben@lemmy.world 2 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

Edit: hmm, my bad, my comment only somewhat relates to yours, it's early and I went off on a tangent. Sounds like you have a way stronger basis for your assertion that they make transition easier than I do, so I want to acknowledge that. I'm skeptical, I think maybe it feels smoother to you because you've spent time doing it or something, and I'm fairly certain a deliberate part of their marketing strategy is to make experiences with other products artificially worse. But otherwise, I do have to take your comment seriously.

Original unnecessary spiel below:

I understand there is a somewhat academic point to be made here and that this design logic is heralded as the guiding principles behind their usability decisions, etc.

I used to buy that, and I'm sure it's involved and the primary concern for plenty of people who work / have worked on the interface. But after watching Apple's behavior as I've grown up with them, learning more about Jobs and his legacy, etc. - anything that feels "walled garden" to me, I'm calling a walled garden. I don't believe their decisions are purely or even primarily for aesthetic and design-minded reasons. Worse, I believe the portion that is, is largely marketing to those who use Apple for the sense of smug superiority it grants (not accusing you of that! it's a thing in the userbase though). And yet worse, I believe that anything that punishes someone who uses less of their products is usually intentional, and if not it's at least known and accepted (with the caveat that they are threading a needle with the last one, and some degree of usability for outsiders is fully necessary for brand growth).

That's a pretty uncharitable take when I type it all out, but I have to acknowledge that it's how I feel. It doesn't mean the UX design principles aren't there. I just don't buy that it's for the users, it's for the shareholders, like any other corp.

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[–] sudneo@lemm.ee 4 points 18 hours ago

Being in a similar situation as you (have to use for work), I would also add the fact that docking station support when it comes to displays is awful, almost nobody got 2 displays working with the dock and I have to plug one HDMI directly into the Mac. Then there is the fact that it's impossible to turn on the computer via the docking station button, so I had to just use sleep instead, and 40% of the times the USB peripherals get disconnected, so I can't wake it up except by unplugging and replugging the docking cable.

Besides that, I have 2 2k display and using Mac they are substantially more blurred than they are with Linux or windows.it's like if everything is bold on Mac. Apparently it has to do with some feature which got removed for non-4k monitors or something.

Thankfully we managed to get Aerospace now installed (I.e. approved), because being used to efficient i3-like window managing, using macos native window management felt like being back in bronze age. There are so many things that apple built expecting you to use the trackpad for efficient workflows... Why would I use a trackpad in a (home) office setting, when it's terrible for ergonomics, requires the laptop to be open etc...

[–] Sasha@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 21 hours ago

Don't even get me started on how god awful finder is, windows 3.1 was nicer to use, macOS is garbage painted silver

[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 24 points 1 day ago (1 children)

There's no way of globally enabling hidden files and folders, there's a terminal command that does it for vanilla finder windows, but none for the finder file picker windows that apps use.

Unclear if it's hardware or MacOS, but despite having the graphical horsepower to push enough pixels, Macs are limited to two external monitors unless you buy the multi thousand dollar Max processor.

It doesn't support high quality Bluetooth audio codecs like AptX.

It doesn't natively support Google cast or Miracast.

It doesn't support sub pixel text rendering so text looks like trash on 1080p LCD monitors.

[–] pivot_root@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Not defending Crapple, but adding context:

There's no way of globally enabling hidden files and folders, there's a terminal command that does it for vanilla finder windows, but none for the finder file picker windows that apps use.

You can use command + shift + full stop to toggle hidden files and folders, if I recall correctly.

Unclear if it's hardware or MacOS, but despite having the graphical horsepower to push enough pixels, Macs are limited to two external monitors unless you buy the multi thousand dollar Max processor.

It's the hardware. Each display needs to have a dedicated controller chip and video signal encoder, and Apple decided to be assholes and only add two of them.

[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You can use command + shift + full stop to toggle hidden files and folders, if I recall correctly.

Yeah, but thats a fundamental problem from a UX standpoint. If you're a software developer who needs to work with those files and folders, you can easily run into issues where you don't even realize that there are files there that are causing problems (or that you changing or deleting might cause problems with).

[–] pivot_root@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

It's a persistent toggle. You could just leave it on permanently, which is what I did when I had to use a Mac for work. If they ever made it reset on reboot or on a timer, I would be pretty fucking annoyed, however.

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[–] Benjaben@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I've had the fun experience recently of moving my work related dev to the company-provided laptop, and boy oh boy have I come to hate Apple quickly.

Most surprising one for me was how trash it is at scaling UI on large displays. I have a pair of 27" and the system text is tiny. Turns out if I had Apple displays things would work better and that scaling option would be available. Instead I'm stuck just switching to a lower non-native resolution, which looks like shit and feels really outdated, but at least I can read the text and use the UI properly.

[–] sudneo@lemm.ee 4 points 18 hours ago

Oh yeah, I have same issue. Certain things are impossible to enlarge. It's infuriating.

Same with moving window controls on the right. You would think a "premium" OS would let you choose trivial things like this, but no.

Apple "superior" workflow means bending to use tools and workflows they designed, the way they intended. Anything else and you are generally going to be blocked one way or another.

[–] KyuubiNoKitsune@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 1 day ago (5 children)

The dock sucks when using multiple windows per app

This made me rage quit using a mac at work

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[–] cm0002@lemmy.world 19 points 1 day ago (14 children)

Actively turning the PC into a walled garden

First point, could have worded it better, but that's definitely all software

Plus, Apple controls the entire stack so criticism of MacOS is criticism of their hardware and vice versa

[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 13 points 1 day ago (2 children)

That’s iOS criticism. On MacOS, I compile software from GitHub and run it no problem.

[–] carrylex@lemmy.world 1 points 12 hours ago

Yeah but have you ever tried to install it directly?

There is stuff like notarization that's literally designed in a way that only Apple approved software can be run on your machine.

[–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 7 points 1 day ago

Unless Apple decides the software is too old and isn't allowed to work anymore.

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[–] moseschrute@lemmy.world 33 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Honestly my M2 MacBook Pro feels like it’s built to last. I paid a lot, but I feel like I’ve gotten great value out of it and genuinely enjoy using it. And it’s still going strong.

But we have to talk about Apple’s hostility towards developers. It’s like they want to make devs miserable. That’s the part that’s unforgivable imo.

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 14 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Honestly my M2 MacBook Pro feels like it’s built to last. I paid a lot, but I feel like I’ve gotten great value out of it and genuinely enjoy using it. And it’s still going strong.

yeah until you want to upgrade or repair something, then it's fuck you buy another one. I get the apple premium, what I don't get is the scorn they show for people who have purchased their overpriced hardware when they want to upgrade it. that's just insulting - you gotta buy it with everything maxed out on APPLE ram, ssds etc.,

[–] BluescreenOfDeath@lemmy.world 12 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Apple making a proprietary pinout for NVME is what will keep me from ever giving them money.

https://assistenciaapplebrasilia.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Apple-Propietary-SSD.png

It's not like Apple uses a different controller, or that they invented a different communication standard. They just put the same communication pins from the same controller on a different physical connector, and charge you 10x for the replacement part. It's why boards like this can work at all:

https://bartechtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/nvme2016macbookPRO-1-678x381.jpg

If Apple wasn't using standard NVMe controller communication protocols and controllers, these adapter boards wouldn't work at all.

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 2 points 17 hours ago

yup. disgusting.

[–] wheeldawg@sh.itjust.works 54 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I hated apple way before I hated windows. But basically just fuck corporations entirely. All of them.

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[–] KyuubiNoKitsune@lemmy.blahaj.zone 18 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I architected and built a cloud based apple build system for a megacorp, what an anti consumer POS company. I hate apple with a passion.

[–] lepinkainen@lemmy.world 1 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Do you prefer windows for servers then?

[–] KyuubiNoKitsune@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 14 hours ago

Linux, not sure why that's relevant though. At least even Windows can be made elastic and it isn't expensive for the sake of being expensive because Apple. So yeah, I guess I'd prefer to run Windows servers than ever run Mac for anything.

[–] Majorllama@lemmy.world 32 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I used to be an apple certified repair technician. Fuck apple and everything they do.

Their hardware is purposely designed to be as unrepairable and difficult to get into as possible. They literally spent millions developing their own new screw types for the inside of their phones. Diabolical evil shit.

Their software is also ass, but I haven't ever daily used any apple products in my life so I am less annoyed by that. I only had to know how to fix em for years. Every time I have to trouble shoot a user issue on Mac it takes me like twice as long to fix because again they design it to be hard to fix things.

Stupid company. Shitty products. Microsoft and windows are right behind them though. Good lord has windows just continued to get worse and worse over the course of my life.

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[–] lepinkainen@lemmy.world 1 points 17 hours ago (3 children)

I’ve owned computers since the 286 was a big deal.

I’ve NEVER had an SSD ”die”

[–] innermeerkat@jlai.lu 13 points 16 hours ago

« My experience as an individual is valid for everyone »

It’s like saying I have lived in my house for 40 years and I have never had a fire.

[–] Dempf@lemmy.zip 4 points 16 hours ago

I had one die in my home server. Hadn't gotten around to any backups or redundancy yet because it was "just" for configs and metadata for media apps. Took me like 5-10 hours to rebuild the config though which was annoying. Would take me much longer now if it happened again. I no longer have that SSD as a single point of failure in my system.

[–] VinesNFluff@pawb.social 1 points 13 hours ago

Lucky you

I've gone through two NVMe drives these past few years.

Both just started fucking up and crashing my whole OS with them.

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