Higher education is too expensive. Not everyone can afford it. Also, some people can't go to school full time because they need to work. I know some people would say these people should be able to do both, but that doesn't work for everyone. If you're someone who got a degree while working full time, good for you, but I've tried working full time and going to school and I found it to be really difficult. If there comes a point where people decide they have to choose between school and work, well, school is going to lose every time because school doesn't pay the rent.
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I'm bracing for this right now. I'm working casual hours while I go to full time schooling but part of that schooling includes unpaid placements, I'm absolutely dreading not having income for basically half a year while i'm on the hook for tuition, bills/rent, transportation ect...
Yup, and since public schools only teach kids to regurgitate curated information, critical thinking and proper researching skills are paywalled.
Wouldnt have anything to do with crippling debt would it?
The article says it has to do with declining birth rates
"The enrollment cliff concept came about within higher education after years of declining birth rates in the US, triggered by the Great Recession. Earlier this year, the CDC released data indicating that the US had hit a historic low in its annual number of births – declining 2% from 2022 to 2023 and then 3% in 2023.
“Since the most recent high in 2007, the number of births has declined 17%, and the general fertility rate has declined 21%,” the August 2024 data shows."
While Park said an [sic] seeing an enrollment cliff isn’t occurring just yet, [...]
None of those people are 18 yet. The 2007 kids, from when birth rates last peaked, are just now 17. The declining birth rate hasn't caught up yet.
The article says it's multifactorial, but predominantly cost and the need to work;
The cost of college is the number one barrier to enrolling in higher education for adults not enrolled in such a program, according to a 2024 report from Gallup and the Lumina Foundation. That report also found that for more than three-quarters of the more than 3,000 unenrolled adults polled, cost and the need to work were preventing them from pursuing further education.
Education to any level should be free at the point of use. Hell I'd even go as far as to say people should be given a (non-means-tested) grant if they go into higher education. We need more smart people.
The more educated & informed a society is, the more productive, safe and free it is. No one should deny themselves the education they otherwise want because they can't afford it.
But Trump loves the poorly educated.
College makes you think critically. It’s good for society overall when more people go, but college administrators have basically turned these nonprofit organizations into money grubbers that have forsaken their original mission.
College is often sold to the working class as some kind of vocational training that will prepare them for highly sought after knowledge based careers. But really think about it: before the mid 20th century, who was the typical college student? Was it a person who had to worry about the consequences of unemployment even if they couldn’t find work?
The next question to ask yourself is: why did these people go to college anyway if it wasn’t for career reasons? And is it something valuable that we are losing as administrators make college more about jobs?
"Student loans" are now one of the most ubiquitous phrases in politics and it's synonymous with "a burden you can never escape" so it makes sense that the folks who can use assistance will avoid it. The entire fight about student loans has always been to highlight the cost and make some folks turn away from higher education all together. Education has always been under attack for as long as most of us have been alive and this is another front in the war.
First they attack public education and exhaust teachers with overwork with underpayment. Now the right wants to attack Academia, the source of science which shows how destructive the current system has become and how it will evolve. Elon will probably entirely axe FAFSA and funding for higher education, with the aim to have their endowments fed by wealthy elite who dictate what makes it onto a syllabus. The right is so fucking exhausting.
American student loans are a scam anyways. The interest rates are outrageous and the federal government subsidizing them, but then they get handled by private businesses in a system know for failure and fraud.
Student loan forgiveness shouldnt be a thing. It shows that the system is trash to begin with and the "forgiveness" remains arbitrary and is just a carrot on a stick.
Make a system where the loans are granted directly by the government and dont incurr interest. No for profit skimming middleman, no permanent debt. Offer a regulated bonus for people who pay back X% before Y years pass, so people are incentivized to pay back quickly, rather than delaying payback.
More importantly remove the outrageous enrollment costs per semester.
Yeah, it's because academia has become a for-profit business first, and an educational centre second.
Don't feel even an ounce of sympathy for these assholes. As someone who works adjacent to academia, we've been talking about the "enrollment cliff" for a few years now. The solution universities have come to is that they should cut admissions requirements to make sure anyone with money can enter their institution, and then do as much creative accounting as necessary to cover up students' failing grades. They'd rather become degree mills than look at the real problem; their tuition costs.
As a post-doc, I was selected for a leadership academy that put me in close contact with upper administration at a public university. We would meet weekly and have a project to work on over the course of the two month experience.
During our discussions, I was always curious about how they used data in their decision making. So one day I asked how are our students doing in the long run? How do we assess the effectiveness of the education we are providing them?
They did not know, they do not collect such data. What was most shocking to me, though was the degree of resistance that they put up to even talking about the idea of creating such feedback systems.
Shortly thereafter I left academia forever with a lingering sense of disgust at the willful ignorance of any institutinalized academic.
My university calls and asks for money on a weekly basis and has the audacity to employ current students to do it. I feel terrible for the kids. They have a script asking these questions. What do I do now? What advice do I have for them?
I used to be normal and tell them to study and go to office hours. Now I tell them the University does not care about them or their success/failure. They only care about being paid for 4 years. I always end with telling them : if you or your loved ones are going into any debt at all for this...leave.
I know that I must sound like some disillusioned alumni that was screwed by the system and an outlier. I'm not. I am doing objectively better than most of the people I graduated with. But if I am one of the few success stories of my many peers, and my University knows absolutely nothing about my strategies after undergrad, then how can they hope to advise students to do the same?
I just see the scam for what it is, and hope I can be a catalyst for at least a few kids to get out before financial ruin. You can get an amazing education from community college/studying at home/khan academy/trade schools. It is all in how much you apply yourself and has nothing to do with how much you paid.
Congratulations on pricing people out of a college education, have fun with that.
Hmmm I wonder if this has anything to do with the FUCKING ASTRONOMICAL TUITION
In an ideal world: Oh no! Some of those useless administrators might have to be let go if they aren't getting the tuition or attendance they budgeted for!
In reality: They will cut the music program, funding for clubs or anything else beneficial to students before recognizing the glut of useless admins.
Sounds to me like people are realizing that the price of college isn't worth it. You take on thousands in debt that can't be discharged in bankruptcy, you get a degree that doesn't guarantee a job.
The lie of college for all is only meant to generate profit for schools and lenders.
And don't get me started on textbook scams in college to prohibit used book sales
The purpose of a system is what it does.
Higher ed as currently constituted keeps young troublemakers distracted during their wild years and then burdens them with long term debt obligations.
Before we began recognizing the humanity of women (and their usefulness in the labor force), the preferred method of social enslavement was early child birth. Student debt seems to be a good replacement as a social control mechanism.
Add to that, corporations don't want educated workers. They want indebted workers who are desperate.
Living In Company towns
Not sure why you're being downvoted. I'd read a study for this if there was one published.
That’s the point if the saying I started my comment with.
There is no written policy stating that student debt will be used as a tool of social control. That’s the ‘quiet part’.
However there are numerous data sources showing the impact of student debt on people’s choices. Such as https://clp.law.harvard.edu/knowledge-hub/magazine/issues/student-debt/debt-takes-a-toll/
The meaning of the saying is that it doesn’t matter one bit what you SAY the system is for, stop instead and look at what outcomes are actually produced.
A common example is when the drumbeat starts for a new war, we hear through media that the purpose is to bring freedom or somesuch. It only takes a little scrutiny to discover that a small number of people stand to make a lot of money off the war.
I grew up being repeatedly told that college is absolutely necessary to get a good job and a secure future. And because you've been told it's necessary, they can get away with such a sharp increase in tuition costs. What are you gonna do, not go? Nah, you're gonna sign on the dotted line and put yourself into debt like all the adults told you to.
I've got a degree in a good field that's supposed to pay well. But the job market is such a mess that I never actually got my foot in the door - everything that claims to be entry level asks for five years of experience in a piece of software that has only existed for two years.
College used to be an investment, now it feels more like a gamble.
bad news for democrats and our society at large
Colleges are also trying to address this by seriously lowering standards.
One thing I make money doing is essentially getting intellectually disabled people through college. I’m not ragging on my clients, but it’s become very clear to me that universities are less interested in educating these people than they are taking their parent’s money.
I was looking through one of the discussion forums for one of my clients’ English classes and it was genuinely horrifying. I’m talking R1 university, and the majority of the posts were either “AI” generated or were written at a middle school level.
This country doesn't prioritize education and then we wonder why people like Trump get elected.
As an employer who hires folks in the data science field, I’ve become more disappointed in recent college graduate job-readiness every year for the last decade. At this point I’d prefer a resume to say “watched 100 hours of YouTube videos about data science” over a masters in the field.
And these poor people have 100k in student loan debt with no marketable job skills and are competing against 10s of thousands of other recent grads with no marketable job skills and college has created a lose-lose environment.
No wonder enrollment is dropping, the cost of the education is absolutely not worth it and people are starting to see it.
The problem is that with the quality decline of high school education college education has become all but a requirement for white collar jobs. Yes, the skillset you've been taught is going to be painfully out of date, but the fact that you have enough preserverence (and money ) for college means that you at least won't be autofiltered by employers.
I'm no expert, but I'm having a hard time not thinking this is a recipe for a major generational housing crisis. We're telling kids the "key" to success is getting that fancy college degree, when in reality it's just a bunch of debt and no job prospects.
When are we going to start factoring in the actual cost of a 4-year education? Tuition's through the roof, student loans are suffocating people under 30, and we're telling them "just do it" for the 'sake of their own future'?
And another thing - what's with all this emphasis on getting a "degreed" person out into the workforce? Can't we teach 'em something in high school? Do we really need to be training 20-year-olds to fill up our 40-something year-old retirements?
Wonder if it has to do with all the “college bad. Why go to college for $100k for a $40k job…” social media trends and the “get rich on social media” trend, along with the fact that college can be really expensive.
Incoming graduates saw an entire generation go to college at the highest rates ever just to find a job market that left a record number of them with debt still on their name more than a decade later.
What were once institutions devoted to academia, have become corporate training camps ran by a board that runs the institution with a corporate mentality, and they enrich themselves commesurately.
Concerning? To whom? The people who profit massively off of students, many of which are going deep into debt?
It's not really concerning when it's just plain impractical to go unless youre pursuing stem.
The American environment of work is going to get a little wild over the next few years. If your job isn't a blunt necessity like an Arborist, or Fireplace technician or something, I'd consider leaving.
u?
I'm a mechanic. We make our own rules. World goes to shit? Inflation gone insane!? Don't care. Pay up or no car.
A thing that upset me when I went to college (15ys ago) was all the fluff electives I had to take. More than half of my classes were not associated with my major. I was looking into getting a masters a few years ago and one of the requirements was American History, again! I learned all of American history in elementary school, and all of it again in middle school, and all of it again in high school and again for my bachelors and I need to do it again for a Masters? Add along more sciences and math classes for an art related major. While I understand in building well rounded students, a lot of it seemed like it was meant to just beef up the number of classes I needed to pay for.
The number of electives needed was also enough where you only had two options.
- Keep your part time job and take additional winter, summer or night clases and pay extra to get them in.
- Have no job and fill your whole schedule with classes (each class was 3hrs long)
What you're describing sounds like a liberal arts school. That's kind of the point, at least for undergrad.
Zoomers are unaliving the college debt industry