this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2024
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Pocketpair goes on to say that Palworld has been claimed to infringe on three patents held by Nintendo and The Pokemon Company and that part of the damage is required as compensation.

The first patent is one that most had guessed to be part of the case, as 7545191 refers to the process of capturing and befriending Pokemon, which Palworld apes with its Pal Spheres. The other two patents that are included in the lawsuit, 7493117 and 7528390 haven't been found and detailed just yet, but they're likely also mechanics in Pokemon games that are replicated in Palworld.

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[–] TacticsConsort@yiffit.net 136 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Even as a dedicated pokemon fan that hasn't played Palworld (the butchering mechanics don't really appeal to me)...

I really hope Nintendo loses this, and loses it HARD. I think that some actual competition would be really healthy for the pokemon franchise, giving them an actual impetus to make sure their games are high-quality and well-supported and don't pursue serious anti-consumer practices.

Godspeed, Palworld. Counting on you.

[–] I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world 44 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The butchering mechanic is mostly there as a joke. After you do it once, you unlock a much better and friendlier version of recycling your duplicate Pals.

[–] Albbi@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Oh... I never butchered because that just seemed wrong. Is there any way to just get to the friendlier version without butchering?

[–] mitchty@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Yeah just level up. Though there is an improved industrial pal shredder Fargo style at the end game too if you went to automate things.

[–] PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world 32 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

The unfortunate part is that Nintendo is likely going to win it. It’s a Japanese company, in Japanese court, and the courts are hilariously biased in favor of Japanese companies. Nintendo has literally never lost a lawsuit in Japan against a foreign defendant, because the Japanese courts are set up to trust Japanese claimants more than foreigners by default.

Japan has a lot of cute media and a reputation for being polite, but the harsh reality is that the country is one of the most racist in the world. They get away with it because the culture is built upon being polite. But under that polite exterior, there is a lot of overt racism. Japan is one of the most homogenous populations in the world, with 99.8% of the population being native Japanese. That remaining 0.2% includes all of the tourists, visa holders, immigrants, half-Japanese children, etc… Japan has a saying, which roughly translates to “the nail that sticks out gets hammered down.” In a society that is focused on blending in, immigrants stick out.

Imagine how bad the White Power rhetoric would be if America were 99.8% white, and that other 0.2% (not 2%. Two tenths of 1%) of non-white people included tourists, immigrants, and naturalized citizens. In a packed 20,000 person stadium, that would only be 40 non-white people in the crowd.

[–] Grangle1@lemm.ee 15 points 2 weeks ago

To be fair, they're both Japanese companies, but yeah, Japan's patent/trademark/copyright laws, or at least the way they're enforced, make America's look like China's. It's a big part of how Nintendo can be the copyright bullies they are: they'll do this, file suit in Japan, and steamroll anyone who dares oppose them in court. Because both companies in this case are Japanese, though, all the Japan vs foreigner stuff doesn't really apply here.

And as a foreigner who lived in Japan in the past, I will say there's some truth to the above, but it's a bit exaggerated. Due to that homogeneity, 90+ percent of any racism anyone might experience there is due to stereotypes, not hostility or hatred. It's still wrong, but more due to ignorance. That is, unless you're Chinese or Korean. Japan, China and Korea HATE each other (each one hates the other two) for many historical reasons, and while the hostility isn't as overt nowadays, it still simmers just under the surface. The US is basically forcing Japan and South Korea to play nice and be "allies" so that China and North Korea don't run them both over. Otherwise, they would all be at each other's throats.

[–] Katana314@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I hadn't realized the court was within Japan. Does Palworld conduct business inside the country? I'd think if it was never released there, Japan would have no basis to pull them into a foreign case.

[–] PhenolFight@lemmy.blahaj.zone 32 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Pocketpair (Palworld dev) is also a Japanese company.

[–] pressanykeynow@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

So there are two Japanese companies, what racial bias is there then?

[–] PhenolFight@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 2 weeks ago

There wouldn't be. Person from the top of the chain presumably hasn't actually read up on things here and just jumped to conclusions.

[–] BrowseMan@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago

Japanese court also tend to privilege big companies...

[–] HeavyRaptor@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 weeks ago

Imagine how bad the White Power rhetoric would be if America were 99.8% white, and that other 0.2% (not 2%. Two tenths of 1%) of non-white people included tourists, immigrants, and naturalized citizens. In a packed 20,000 person stadium, that would only be 40 non-white people in the crowd.

You Americans are so funny. It's your country that has the media going on about identity politics and racism 24/7. If America were 99.8% white nobody would bat an eye about racism because there wouldn't be a significant demografic group impacted by it.

White power is not really a thing when you can't blame a large part of society for your shortcomings. Without the race issue there are still a select few in positions of power and many slaving avay every day just to get by.

I the case of Japan it is more difficult to fit in as any foreigner. There is a strong societal norm centered around culture and mannerisms and everyone not adhering to the etiquette stands out and is considered rude. This culture takes center stage during the upbringing of Japanese children so it is engrained in them by the time they become adults.

There are exaples of (even black) people successfully adopting a Japanese way of life but it is difficult, as you said they are hammered down until they fit in.

Anyway, racist? Yes, difinitely. White (yellow?) power rhetoric - not so much. That was probably more the case before WWII.

[–] ieatpwns@lemmy.world 64 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Nintendo is going hard against palworld because palworld is funded by Sony this is just the next move in a 30 year chess match

[–] CrazyLikeGollum@lemmy.world 48 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Yeah, there was a great video on YouTube I saw a few days ago that went over why Sony is backing Pocket Pair, why Nintendo is making this case about patents, why that's a massive risk for Nintendo, and why Nintendo is willing to take that risk.

It largely seemed to come down to the Nintndo-Sony rivalry that started when Nintendo backed out of the SNES era deal to create the PlayStation. Nintendo is trying to crush Sony's potentially viable competitor to their largest franchise and are making the case a patent case because that's the only route they can pursue. If they lose, Nintendo stands to lose those patents.

The video in question

[–] ieatpwns@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

That’s the same one I watched

[–] BonerMan@ani.social 17 points 2 weeks ago

Its a IP proxy war now...

[–] RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world 52 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The most disgusting part of this is that all of these patents were filed this year, meaning their only purpose is for giving Nintendo an avenue to sue Pocket Pair.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 15 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Wouldn't that make them super easy to knock down though? Pal World can just open it's records to show Nintendo's process wasn't novel.

[–] RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world 15 points 2 weeks ago

Yes, if you ignore the fact that Nintendo has very deep pockets and Japanese courts are very bribable.

[–] PunchingWood@lemmy.world 50 points 2 weeks ago

Throws ball at dog

Nintendo:

[–] RedditWanderer@lemmy.world 39 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Saw videos/articles online that this was the "end of gamedev" or whatever.

While patents for games are shit, theyve been around a long time and are hard to enforce. Palworld made it incredibly easy for one of the most ruthless companies to go after them. I expected they waited to see the final game before taking action, and until palworld made a ridiculous amount of money.

I've worked on Pokemon clones that are commercially available, and while they didn't sell as much as palworld, they took a bit more care designing around stuff

[–] bassomitron@lemmy.world 15 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (4 children)

How tf does Coromon get away with it? I'd say that's waaaay more of a rip-off than Palworld. E: typo

[–] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 19 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Coromon didn't get a huge media deal that could have the potential undermine the Pokemon franchise. Nintendo going after them would be just needless friction since patent lawsuits are hellish

[–] Grimy@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I also think location has to do with it. The dev team behind Coromon are in Europe while both Nintendo and the Palworld devs are in Japan.

From what I understand from a previous article, japanese patent laws can be quite strict.

[–] Omegamanthethird@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

What I always hear is that companies will send C&D letters to small ventures, because it creates precedence. Without that, a company loses the right to sue.

I wonder how true that actually is.

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 4 points 2 weeks ago

That's more trademark law, not patent or copyright. At least in the US, I don't know if Japan is different.

[–] RedditWanderer@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago

Funny you mention THAT game.

Not that I have anyyy insider knowledge, but great care was taken to avoid very specific things. Also who knows, had coromon exploded in popularity, maybe Nintendo would have bothered.

[–] Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz 9 points 2 weeks ago

Probably just not big enough. Pokemon-like games are very common, palworld was just hugely successful and a lot of the media coverage for it was comparing it to Pokemon.

[–] _NetNomad@fedia.io -4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Coromon is only a ripoff in the same way that any scrolling platformer is a ripoff of Super Mario Bros. building off the basic chassis of existing games to make new ones is a practice as old as videogames itself and why genres exist. the difference is that Palworld is full to the brim with monsters that can be difficult to tell at a glance from existing Pokémon- look at this article's embedded image, that's just a Wooloo with horns on it's hind legs- whereas Coromon, Digimon, Dragon Quest Tamers, Yokoi Watch, Cassette Beasts, and anything else in the genre aren't ripoffs and are even available on Nintendo consoles

i know that's not the angle Nintendo is using in court, but it's certainly the reason why they're in court in the first place while ignoring the plethora of older games that would also clearly violate those patents

[–] bassomitron@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I disagree. There are a number of Coromon creatures that also heavily resemble some pokemon. I mean, it's to be expected, there are only so many variations of creature designs before they begin being similar to each other, especially with how long Pokemon has been at it, having like 1000+ creatures now.

Anyway, Nintendo is a greedy shitbag of a company. I love many of their games, but they're the absolute worst when it comes to being extremely litigious and/or consumer friendly. I truly hope they lose this legal battle

[–] _NetNomad@fedia.io 2 points 2 weeks ago

do you have any examples? i can't think of any Coromon that resemble Pokemon aside from sharing a base animal, whereas a number of Pokemon look closer to specific Pals than they do to their own regional or gender variants

[–] BonerMan@ani.social 17 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Its so fucked up that Nintendo allegedly owns copyright to CONCEPTS hope they loose it.

[–] Mirodir@discuss.tchncs.de 20 points 2 weeks ago

It's not copyright, it's patents...

(I do also hope that they lose because ingame mechanics being patented is bullshit)

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

They had some asshole payents back in the day, like npc giving quests IIRC and the directional cross.

Sony had the "stand up and say mcdonalds to continue the game" IIRC.

Is this US only? Can't imagine it would roll in the EU.

[–] BonerMan@ani.social 5 points 2 weeks ago

I think its not even US but Nintendo lobbies so massively that they can uphold Japanese copyright Circus in other countries.

In all sane countries its not possible to parent or copyright a idea or concept just a processes of doing something.

[–] Carighan@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

Someone owned a patent for minigames on the loading screen which is why we did not get thise after Broken Sword. At least that expired, so now for example we got Mario Party Jamboree doing it again.

[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 13 points 2 weeks ago

Sega and RGG just standing there daring Nintendo to try shit.

[–] rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee 12 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

How have the patents not been found when we know the numbers? Is looking up patents that messed up of a process?

[–] egerlach@lemmy.ca 23 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

They're Japanese patents, so maybe they're already circulating in Japanese media and haven't been translated yet.

Alternatively, maybe the Japanese Patent Office requires you to follow some bureaucratic process to get a copy: like you have to be a lawyer and it takes 4-6 weeks to get your reply. I don't know, but Japan just finally got rid of its last laws requiring floppy disks for certain processes a few years back, so it's not out of the realm of possibility

I'm sure we'll hear the details soon.

[–] SplashJackson@lemmy.ca 9 points 2 weeks ago

I had a floppy disc but I took a pill and now it's a hard drive and it's been more than four hours and I don't know what to do, please send help

[–] Toneswirly@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

No one tell Nintendo about Yarisute Mesubuta...