this post was submitted on 28 Sep 2024
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"A new trend has emerged in American politics: The very youngest voters — 18-to-24-year-olds — say they’re more conservative than the cohort that’s just older,” according to the latest Harvard Youth Poll.

“This new trend — which is true for both genders and emerged only in the last few years — is especially pronounced with men.”

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[–] newthrowaway20@lemmy.world 126 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

If you didn't know this, you haven't been paying attention. Right wing voices have gone hard at the young male demographic for years now. They've targeted kids in online games and social media, and groomed them for years all with the goal of shaping their world view and by extension, their politics. Lonely young guys looking at people who present themselves as successful, rich, and rolling in women, not giving a fuck about anyone but themselves, telling young boys that they just need to be more sexist and racist and that'll get them laid and make them feel fulfilled. Telling them that the world is wrong and they're not. It's been extremely successful, and all wide out in the open. That's why voices like Andrew Tate made it into the public zeitgeist.

Frankly, it's an absolute failing on all of the left for being completely unable or unwilling to see this or show an alternative world view. Too often, when I hear people talk about young white men's issues, I get crocodile tears from everyone who can't separate them from actual right wing provocateurs.

[–] Carrolade@lemmy.world 45 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Don't forget Gamergate.

I think the reason the left doesn't hit back as hard is because it feels sort of strange to do so. It's difficult to acknowledge at the emotional level that we're really back to just fighting for the most fundamental basics of liberty, equality and pursuit of happiness. Especially given how the right co-opted talking about freedom in general a number of years ago. Do we really need to rewind our level of discourse all the way back to the 18th century though?

Well, if those are the principles that are under attack, perhaps we do.

[–] blarth@thelemmy.club 24 points 2 weeks ago

All of this began with Steve Bannon and his WoW guild. I can’t believe how far they’ve taken it.

https://www.thewrap.com/how-world-of-warcraft-propelled-steve-bannon-to-the-white-house/

[–] AbsoluteChicagoDog@lemm.ee 25 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

It doesn't help that men literally cannot complain about their issues online without being called an incel. It's so overused that it's lost all meaning. The left needs to do better for young men than "Shut up women have it worse"

*Obviously women DO have it worse, we just need to work on the messaging.

[–] capital@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Obviously women DO have it worse

In what ways? That's important.

For example, we're WAY better at killing ourselves.

[–] AbsoluteChicagoDog@lemm.ee 20 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)

Men don't need to fight legal battles for basic bodily autonomy, for example.

[–] capital@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

That is a good example and heavily informs my voting habits.

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[–] Rakonat@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago

It literally couldn't be less important. We shouldn't be fighting about what makes us different or run the Oppression Olympics. That's literally what the 'elite' want cause it stops organization against them.

Far better use of everyones' time would be find a cause that helps everyone, not just themselves.

[–] chakan2@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

In what ways? That’s important.

That's the wrong question, and that's why they're all turning to right wing but jobs.

Boy kid gets online and says, I have X problem...he's immediately downvoted to oblivion and a deluge of "but women have it worse."

But there's one dude in that noise that says, I have that problem too...have you heard of Andrew Tate (or whoever the hot grifter is).

We need to take these kids seriously if you want them to be well rounded adults. Otherwise they're just going to keep leaking out to the extremists.

[–] dirthawker0@lemmy.world 20 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I may get downvoted for this but I tend to downvote comments that lay everything right wing on boomers/olds. I'm nearly one myself, and most of my RL friends are boomer age lefties. Is Vance old? Is Loomer a boomer? Maga Mike, MTG, Boebert, at most Gen X, are leading the charge, and all the Patriot Front dudes are millennials and gen Z. If it were all boomers only we could just wait for them to die off, but it isn't.

[–] newthrowaway20@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

I didn't know I accused boomers, or older people specifically, of anything. Did I do that? Or am I misunderstanding what you mean?

[–] dudinax@programming.dev 11 points 2 weeks ago

No, u/dirthawker0 is supporting your point.

[–] dirthawker0@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago

I'm agreeing with you

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 13 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

You've identified the problem many see, but what is the solution?

This demographic is notoriously hard to reach and the nature of its age and inexperience leads to having their priorities woefully out of whack and susceptible to shit like Joe Rogan and Andrew Tate to Jordan Peterson. Asking or forcing them to watch Mr. Rogers isn't going to cut it, if you know what I mean.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 13 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

forcing them to watch Mr. Rogers

[–] jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world 12 points 2 weeks ago

Saying the world is wrong is a very easy sell because a ton of society is wrong about a ton of things. Covid, minimum wage, appropriate level of corporate dark pattern prosecution (shoutout to world famous breath of fresh air lina khan).

The normal people need to be more proactive about starting with conservative grievances and exploring them more, because the trail leads straight to the billionaires symbolically, and a captured, subjugated set of laws, protections, and institutions that allow them to ever exist.

Systems thinking with as few big words as possible is good for everybody.

[–] T00l_shed@lemmy.world 53 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I wonder how much of a role tick tock and youtube could have had on this.

[–] dudinax@programming.dev 10 points 2 weeks ago

The day Trump flip-flopped on Tik Tok, my wife's feed started to carry humanizing Trump videos. They've since disappeared.

[–] nemonic187@lemmy.world 45 points 2 weeks ago

Incel dipshits that couldn’t get laid even if they had a 100 dollar bill sticking out of theirs pants.

[–] Rapidcreek@lemmy.world 36 points 2 weeks ago (10 children)

Here's the results from that youth poll the Axios article doesn't mention:

The poll also finds:

A significant enthusiasm gap between young Democrats and Republicans, with 74% of young Democrats saying they will "definitely" vote, compared to 60% of young Republicans.

A widening gender gap, nearly doubling from 17 points in the Spring poll to 30 points now, with Harris leading 70% to 23% among likely female voters.

Harris outperforming Trump on key personal qualities and issues, with substantial leads in empathy (+33), relatability (+24), honesty (+22), climate change (+32), abortion (+31), health care (+26), and gun violence prevention (+25) among all young adults.

Harris's job approval as Vice President has significantly improved, increasing from 32% in the Spring poll to 44% now.

Strong support for progressive policies among young Americans, with 74% favoring capping prescription drug prices and 59% supporting a nationwide law to legalize abortion.

Overwhelming rejection of Project 2025 among young Americans, with only 6% viewing it favorably compared to 48% unfavorably. Even among Republicans, we find 14% viewing it favorably and 23% unfavorably.

The impact of social media, with 53% of young adults encountering memes about Harris online in the last month, 34% of whom say it positively influenced their opinion. Conversely, 56% have seen memes about Trump, with 26% reporting a negative impact on their perception.

https://iop.harvard.edu/youth-poll/48th-edition-fall-2024

[–] WoahWoah@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

And yet because of the electoral college, it's still dead even. Factor in the armed citizen (trump supporting) electoral monitors planning to patrol ballots on election day and other vote suppression tactics, disenrollment and other court disenfranchisement tactics, and laws being passed to try to legally not certify a Harris victory, I figure Harris is probably and a 45-55 underdog at the moment.

Young people still don't vote at very high rates. They also tend to be the most likely demographic to say they are a likely voter but then not actually bother to vote. The youth vote is still a problem in this country.

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember that young conservative "likely voters" were much more likely to actually vote, so that muddies some of the clarity here as well.

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[–] Blackbeard@lemmy.world 25 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)
[–] newthrowaway20@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

Got a non-paywall version?

[–] qprimed@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Firefox and noscript will get you almost any wapo article.

edit: article is worth the read.

[–] Wxfisch@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago

Here’s a gifted version, I think it still asks you to login but it’s not paywalled

https://wapo.st/3zKhYRV

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[–] negativenull@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

That was a fantastic read. Thank you for sharing that

[–] Blackbeard@lemmy.world 12 points 2 weeks ago

Indeed. It articulated a lot of what I've seen since I graduated high school about 20 years ago, and it helps explain the hypnotic allure of toxic shitheads like Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro. It also helped me understand a little more about Trumpism and why it's so weirdly intoxicating to people like my father in law and uncles, who really are just sad, old, ugly, many-times-divorced white men with limited education and very little to offer to the rest of society. They're fucking angry, and it was hard to figure out what they were so mad about until I started reading stuff like this. They're completely unmoored and irrelevant, and they're lashing out in what's really a cry for help, even if it's too deep within their subconscious to be actionable.

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[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 22 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
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[–] tacosanonymous@lemm.ee 13 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I’d like to know the exact definition of “conservative.” I find it hard to believe that youn people are viewing the widespread woes of late game capitalism thinking “more capitalism will fix this.”

What I’ve seen are young men feeling isolated and lonely then being angry about it. Then they are told by Rogan/petersonesque types that being authoritarian to women as policy will get them an obedient wife.

[–] Carrolade@lemmy.world 12 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The bottom paragraph of the article states that they're just as likely to say health care is a right and governments should pay more to help lift people out of poverty. So, there's a disconnect between the identity and actual policy positions which I think is pretty key.

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[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Whatever they believe...

They could say they want M4A, no more billionaires, and our college system to be fixed, then say they're a conservative because Dad said their family is conservative.

[–] adespoton@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 weeks ago

When I was in that age bracket, I identified as conservative. Over the years, my positions have become increasingly conservative, and I find myself classified by many as a flaming socialist.

So this isn’t a new thing; people compare themselves to what they consider normal.

I think what it really shows is that it’s less obvious today what the difference between conservative and (what? liberal? progressive?) is. People tend to know more what they aren’t than what they are when they’re young. If they reject something that’s considered liberal, they must be conservative.

I think this is exactly it. For the younger generations, things have shifted leftward, to such a degree that standard issue leftists almost look like they're conservatives.

[–] JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

Wait.. so the boomers aren't the ones who'll take country to dogshit? Now I'm confused - these kids need to get their message straight.

[–] themachine@lemm.ee 5 points 2 weeks ago

I see this in my purple state amongst my teenage kids peers, and it’s terrifying.

[–] laverabe@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

This is not that unexpected. There hasn't been much excitement in the democratic party since 2016 when Sanders movement was stampled. Young voters are still progressive, but there has been no good ringbearer.

Reality check: The youngest age group still appears to favor liberal positions on some issues as much as those ages 25 to 29, Anil Cacodcar, the student chair of the Harvard Youth Poll, noted.

In a poll earlier this year, the younger group was just as likely to say basic health insurance is a human right and government should spend more to reduce poverty.

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