this post was submitted on 20 Aug 2023
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[–] dingus@lemmy.ml 36 points 2 years ago (28 children)

Socialists don't hate markets, they hate workers not having any power or democratic choice in how they interact in the market.

Workers owning the means of production just means the workers are doing the same work but they are in ownership of the factory and the profits. They will still sell the products they produce in a marketplace.

[–] masquenox@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago

They will still sell the products they produce in a marketplace.

There is no rule that states they have to sell squat in a marketplace. They could, but they also couldn't. That's the whole point of the workers owning the means of production - the workers involved makes those deicisions, not a capitalist or bureaucratic parasite class.

[–] hglman@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (10 children)

I, a socialist, hate markets. They are simplistic and functional artifacts of the available way to pass information.

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[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 24 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (88 children)

You literally left Reddit because of what capitalism did to it.

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[–] imgonnatrythis@lemm.ee 9 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Wtf is an uncorrupt government?

[–] dingus@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

All types of governance and economic systems are susceptible to despotism.

It takes a constantly educated and involved population to fight it.

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[–] TheBroodian@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago (56 children)

The bias is justified. The left is correct. Markets don't create wealth without necessarily simultaneously creating poverty

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[–] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago (3 children)

To paraphrase this cool guy named Ernesto: Its not our fault reality is marxist che-si

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[–] Dubious_Fart@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago

I think you will find any place thats well moderated and cracks down on bigotry and hatespeech will skew left.

Weird how that is, huh?

[–] Avnar@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 1 year ago

"Uncorupted Goverment" LoL when did that last happen under Capitalism?

[–] beef_curds@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago

You'll be happy to know there's a social media site just like lemmy run by capitalists. It has all the benefits that capitalist ownership provides.

[–] bitsplease@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children)

Most would agree with your point - right up until you suggest that having an "uncorrupt government" is remotely possible.

Pretty much the same level of unrealistic idealism as folks who think it's remotely possible to transition a state to communism without it turning into authoritarianism.

There, now I've pissed off everyone lol

Edit: Except, I guess for the hardcore capitalists, but I assume those guys are all too dumb to read, so no point, really 🤷

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[–] RangerJosie@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It can. In theory.

The theoretical part is the "uncorrupt government" you speak of.

The only way to keep a govt "uncorrupt" as you put it is under pain of literal death. And even then its not foolproof. Some will still be tempted.

If you want a govt that will serve the people while being as incorruptible as possible you have to choose politicians by lottery instead of election. They get called, go serve, then go back to the life they had before. Like 4 years of Jury Duty. Political graspers, climbers, those will always trend towards corruption. Like that old addage, anyone actively seeking political office is unfit to serve in that capacity as their motivations are suspect. Power, authority, etc. All that is only intensified in a system as inconceivably corrupt and broken as ours is.

[–] JeezNutz@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 months ago

A bit late to the party

[–] halfempty@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's why I'm here. All the corporate owned social media are blatantly far-right fascists. Everywhere else is just thick with Nazis and racists.

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