I mean.. with all the negativity in this thread, every single person here is consenting to be alive every single day. While there are a number who choose an early exit, the vast vast statistical majority overwhelmingly consent to live another day every day. With such stats I feel like it's fine to assume the default status is consent in this context.

Plus, speaking of morals, we're just dumb little apes. You give us too much credit if you think we can fight the greatest biological urge of all life over something we've completely invented in our minds : morals, and the morals of the unborn is like double hypothetical.

[–] snekmuffin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 months ago

"by waking up today, you consent to continue existing, and acknowledge the suffering it brings. Do you wish to continue?”

[yes] [yes]

no the fuck I do not. If I had a magicall button that would let me stop existing without the risk of damaging my neck and spending the rest of my life incapacitated but alive, and it didn't cause trauma to the people around me, I would have pressed it fucking years ago.

vast statistical majority overwhelmingly consent to live

what disgusting mental acrobatics

[–] Junkhead@slrpnk.net 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I think most people simply don’t appreciate what having a child is and what a massive responsibility it is. Bringing another human being into this world is a gift, one that you should be expected to nurture and love no matter what.

The problem is that many believe that a child is simply an extension of oneself and can be manipulated and contorted into whatever the parent wants. A child is not you, a child is not a free workforce, or laborer. Too many people who do not truly understand what they are bringing into this world are parents and thats why theres so many flawed individuals.

I think most people shouldnt have children and especially right now with the way the worlds headed but to say having children is completely wrong is immensely stupid.

(in addition i myself am abstaining from having children because i dont want the responsibility and i find the lil shits annoying.)

[–] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 0 points 3 months ago

I think most people simply don’t appreciate what having a child is and what a massive responsibility it is.

I think you're talking out of your own ass, if you believe that most parents don't know all that.

[–] Twentytwodividedby7@lemmy.world -1 points 3 months ago (3 children)

No, you're a fool if you truly believe this. Every generation has had some form of this feeling. Imagine considering having children during WW1, or WW2, or during Vietnam or Korea? Then after that we had McCarthyism and the Cold War - all seemingly hopeless days. Yet there is still so much beauty in the world, and there is so much that makes life worth living.

My son will turn 2 in a few months. It's tough being a parent, but it is entirely worth it. You cannot give into myopia - every time I hear him laugh, I am reminded that there is good in the world and it is worth fighting for. He will have his own challenges to face in life, but it is our job as a society to equip him, and all of the next generation, with the tools they need to succeed.

I'm troubled about the future, but you cannot make that stop you from striving for better days. As Marcus Aurelius said, never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present.

I've been re-reading the Lord of the Rings lately, and there is a lot there on this topic, but I always think back to Sam. We all should be so lucky to have a friend like that, but what he says when all hope seems to be lost is truly striking:

"It's like the great stories, Mr. Frodo, the ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were, and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad has happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing this shadow, even darkness must pass. A new day will come, and when the sun shines, it'll shine out the clearer. I know now folks in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn't. They kept going because they were holding on to something. That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it's worth fighting for."

Tolkien wrote this after his experiences fighting in The Somme. If he could find hope and found the courage to keep striving for better days, then so should we.

[–] drosophila@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I don't think I would have brought a new person into the world during any of the other time periods you mention either.

[–] randomname01@feddit.nl 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

That’s fair, and not an unreasonable choice. What I can’t get over is people acting like that’s the only reasonable choice, and that people who have children are idiots.

Just look around in this thread and you’ll see some smug ass attitudes. It kind of reminds me of those 14 year old kids who feel immensely smart because they’re atheist, you know?

[–] BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I didn’t say people who have children are idiots. I just think it’s immoral

[–] randomname01@feddit.nl -1 points 3 months ago

Ok lol, my point remains exactly the same and I think your viewpoint is incredibly reductive.

[–] Thrillhouse@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I’d say you can find things that make life worth living if you’re already here. But if someone's not "here", why drag someone you're supposed to love the most into this mess when we can’t even properly look after the children that are already here.

I’m not anti-child - I’d consider adopting if it didn’t cost like $20k. I’m anti-new child for myself, and yeah I get sad when I see other people have kids, especially now. It's like having another kid when you lived in the middle of the dust bowl and people were actively dying from starvation and the dust. Probably not the best time to have kids, similar to now. They just couldn't easily make the choice to not have kids back then.

There are tons of arguments in favour of having kids like what if they cure cancer etc.

However, for myself, I truly believe there will be an ecological collapse due to climate change if not during my lifetime, in the immediate next generation. And we’re still not doing enough. I don’t want to flee natural disasters with a child in tow. One of best things you can do for the climate is not have kids. I'm privileged enough to make that choice so I did, but it's not my only reason. You got late stage capitalism and the accelerating concentration of resources with the hyper wealthy, war / nuclear war, and the fact that pregnancy is one of most risky things I can medically do. Social media, the toxic drug supply, the rise of fascism (again), microplastics in literally fucking everything. I don't even think we'll have social healthcare or social security in Canada by the time I die because they're gutting our programs so badly.

I get that people have a strong reaction to their choices being called immoral. Morality looks different for everyone. However, the counterargument of "Well I have children and they're great and bring me so much joy etc" falls on deaf ears, because it truly does not sound like joy to me and when I say I am anti-child for myself I am telling you that. It's like trying to convince someone skydiving is the greatest thing - some people love it, but not my cup of tea. It is so foreign to me that whenever I hear parents say this it feels like they are trying to convince themselves that they made the right choice.

[–] ebc@lemmy.ca -1 points 3 months ago

Have you watched Idiocracy? I consider myself a smart guy, and having children is my way to fight against the world getting stupider.

Also, it is a joy. Yeah, it's expensive, and yeah, it's a ton of work. But it's like working on a very big project that you know you'll be proud of when it's done. I didn't understand it before because I only experienced other people's children, but it's different with your own children in a way that's hard to explain.

[–] Femcowboy@lemm.ee 1 points 3 months ago

I'd have to disagree from the angle that, you cannot philoshpy your way out of ecology. If you actually look at a population graph for any species which experiences a massive spike in birthrates, and what comes for them afterwards, you would probably come to a conclusion that the rate at which we've been producing kids is very unsustainable, and while we probably shouldn't tell people not to have kids completely we should probably begin to consider how to transition towards more sustainable population numbers. A given ecosystem can only sustain so much of one species before it begins to break down. Our Eco system is the entire world and it is very much breaking down as we hit record temperatures year after year. There were lights at ends of tunnels during every war as they've always like, ended with a winning side that could rebuild/regrow, and even ecological collapses have been recovered from by humans but we're not going to get to be the humans that recover, and it doesn't look like our kids will be either. So, if we want to have kinda okay lives we should maybe consider minimizing the impact from what is about to happen, and also not bringing children into a world that has pretty much no chance of being better for them than it was for us.