Asklemmy

I hate how everybody else gets to judge whether or not someone’s speech is offensive, regardless of what someone intended

However, the determination of offensive speech is not in the hands of the speaker, but rather in the reception by the listener.

Descriptively speaking, I think that it's more complex than it looks like - the determination depends on the linguistic community, not just the listener.

I get what you're saying, but nobody who says they are going to start cracking the whip is talking about training animals. Even if they were, that's not an inoffensive metaphor, either. You're either comparing subordinates to slaves or animals. You're suggesting that physical violence, the threat of torture, is an appropriate motivator, or you wish it were. If that's not what you're saying, then you shouldn't say that, even as an exaggeration or a joke.

It is an offensive metaphor. You may not offend everyone, but if you have offended someone, it's not their fault you said something offensive. They didn't choose to be offended, and made no determination about what you meant. You should say what you mean, clearly, and with intent. Carelessness is not an excuse for using offensive language.

Me and the boys going to work on the Big Book of Slurs

And it is locational. Something insensitive in the US might be insensitive here in Oz or over in Europe.... Or might not.

That is how idiom works.

A lot of people post online that they love the phrase “cotton-headed ninny-muggins”.

But once you look at it thought this lens…boys I think this one’s not ok.

Those are the exact two examples for me as well! I thought I was alone in my idiocy!

Hell, "jewing someone down" was always a positive and admirable thing for me. Guess as a little kid I thought it was complementary to Jews and never thought about it again.

Not even going to say how long ago it was that I realized the reference to Gypsies. But it was a recent event, and I'm old.

How about "shyster"? I'm scared to ask...

My family always pronounced it "chewing them down," so I was surprised to see it written the first time. I was probably in college.

I'm 38 and I did not know this.

Whip cracker is actually probably false etymology, like a retcon of the origin that is popular, but actually not true.

So you're telling me Saltines aren't part of my American heritage?

Oh, fuck. This would have been nice to know sooner.

Yeah, that's called Welshing.

I always thought “Indian summer” sounded very poetic, maybe related to the climate of the Indian subcontinent.

But it’s just garden variety American racism?
That’s so disappointing!

Does anyone know more about the etymology?

In school there was a group of mostly white friends that had a Asian kid in their friends group. His nickname was Nip. I honestly didn't know his real name as another was never used. It was a few years before I realized the connotation that was there once I started studying history. Not sure if it was a parent or where it came from but most of us at the time had no idea how bad it was. It was just his name and he used it too.

Then I think of my church going father. One of the kindest men I knew. Never had a bad thing to say about anyone unless it was personal thing based on a issue first hand.

Race wasn't on his mind at all. Being from the westcoast in a remote wilderness area most of the demographic was white and native with very few in those days what were called east Indians and Asians mixed in. More the exception if at all.

He worked for a logging outfit and towards the end of his career he was a logging road grader operator. I recall going down a road that he maintained in a Jeep with him. As I was navigating this rough road the logging trucks pounded constantly he told me to watch out for this large rock that was below the surface. Just the head of the rock was sticking up. He called them " the N word- heads" I was shocked. I knew he wasn't racist and was friends with the only black church member in town but the word just came out of this mouth as easily as any other word.

I asked him why he called it that, he said that's just what they were called. He didn't continue after that day with me as I don't think he thought about it until our conversation.

In some ways I did equate this to the numerous white kids I knew singing the NWA lyrics in school despite not even seeing a black kid before but this was in the 90s. I can still hear those lyrics as I type this.

Now this isn't to say kids were not nasty, as they were. There were several unkind things used when talking about the native kids that made up to half the school population and more of that where my family lived.

Back to my grandfather's time bonds were formed with the local native bands and friends were made but I'm sure the languaged used at times like "Indian giver" wasn't connected to the real reality.

I do fear as I get older I'm falling into one of these traps with gender and identity words. I think as we get older and comfortable with our understanding of the world we have figured out, some aren't really willing to figure out more.

Despite interacting and having friends from the older local gay community I've not been exposed to anyone that introduces themselves with their name and then their pronouns.

I'm not sure if we can just call everyone "them" or "they" without offending people? Feels like a good starting place but I've not learned yet it this is as bad as the N-word?