this post was submitted on 06 May 2024
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Science Memes

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[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 21 points 1 year ago (4 children)

To me, the physics of the situation makes this all the more impressive.

Voyager has a 23 watt radio. That's about 10x as much power as a cell phone's radio, but it's still small. Voyager is so far away it takes 22.5 hours for the signal to get to earth traveling at light speed. This is a radio beam, not a laser, but it's extraordinarily tight beam for a radio, with the focus only 0.5 degrees wide, but that means it's still 1000x wider than the earth when it arrives. It's being received by some of the biggest antennas ever made, but they're still only 70m wide, so each one only receives a tiny fraction of the power the power transmitted. So, they're decoding a signal that's 10^-18 watts.

So, not only are you debugging a system created half a century ago without being able to see or touch it, you're doing it with a 2-day delay to see what your changes do, and using the most absurdly powerful radios just to send signals.

The computer side of things is also even more impressive than this makes it sound. A memory chip failed. On Earth, you'd probably try to figure that out by physically looking at the hardware, and then probing it with a multimeter or an oscilloscope or something. They couldn't do that. They had to debug it by watching the program as it ran and as it tried to use this faulty memory chip and failed in interesting ways. They could interact with it, but only on a 2 day delay. They also had to know that any wrong move and the little control they had over it could fail and it would be fully dead.

So, a malfunctioning computer that you can only interact with at 40 bits per second, that takes 2 full days between every send and receive, that has flaky hardware and was designed more than 50 years ago.

[–] flerp@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And you explained all of that WITHOUT THE OBNOXIOUS GODDAMNS and FUCKIN SCIENCE AMIRITEs

[–] kuberoot@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 1 year ago

Oh screw that, that's an emotional post from somebody sharing their reaction, and I'm fucking STOKED to hear about it, can't believe I missed the news!

[–] chimasterflex@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Finally I can put some take into this. I've worked in memory testing for years and I'll tell you that it's actually pretty expected for a memory cell to fail after some time. So much so that what we typically do is build in redundancy into the memory cells. We add more memory cells than we might activate at any given time. When shit goes awry, we can reprogram the memory controller to remap the used memory cells so that the bad cells are mapped out and unused ones are mapped in. We don't probe memory cells typically unless we're doing some type of in depth failure analysis. usually we just run a series of algorithms that test each cell and identify which ones aren't responding correctly, then map those out.

None of this is to diminish the engineering challenges that they faced, just to help give an appreciation for the technical mechanisms we've improved over the last few decades

[–] trolololol@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

pretty expected for a memory cell to fail after some time

50 years is plenty of time for the first memory chip to fail most systems would face total failure by multiple defects in half the time WITH physical maintenance.

Also remember it was built with tools from the 70s. Which is probably an advantage, given everything else is still going

[–] orangeboats@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Also remember it was built with tools from the 70s. Which is probably an advantage

Definitely an advantage. Even without planned obsolescence the olden electronics are pretty tolerant of any outside interference compared to the modern ones.

[–] graymess@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Is there a Voyager 1, uh...emulator or something? Like something NASA would use to test the new programming on before hitting send?

[–] Landless2029@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Today you would have a physical duplicate of something in orbit to test code changes on before you push code to something in orbit.

[–] FlatFootFox@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I still cannot believe NASA managed to re-establish a connection with Voyager 1.

That scene from The Martian where JPL had a hardware copy of Pathfinder on Earth? That’s not apocryphal. NASA keeps a lot of engineering models around for a variety of purposes including this sort of hardware troubleshooting.

It’s a practice they started after Voyager. They shot that patch off into space based off of old documentation, blueprints, and internal memos.

[–] nxdefiant@startrek.website 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Imagine scrolling back in the Slack chat 50 years to find that one thing someone said about how the chip bypass worked.

[–] xantoxis@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Imagine any internet company lasting 50 years.

[–] jaybone@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

This is why slack is bullshit. And discord. We should all go back to email. It can be stored and archived and organized and get off my lawn.

[–] deweydecibel@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean, unironically, yeah.

It's not even that we need to go back to email. The problem isn't moving on from outdated forms of communication, it's that the technology being pushed as a replacement for it is throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Which is to say nothing of the fact that all of these new platforms are proprietary, walled off, and in some cases don't make controlling the data easy if you're not hosting it (and their searches are trash).

[–] sudo42@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

all of these new platforms are proprietary, walled off, and in some cases don’t make controlling the data easy if you’re not hosting it

You’ve just discovered their business case. So many new businesses these days only insinuate themselves into an existing process in order to co-opt it and charge rents.

[–] Artyom@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

It's not Slack's fault. It is a good platform for one-off messages. Need a useless bureaucratic form signed? Slack. Need your boss to okay the afternoon off? Slack. Need to ask your lead programmer which data structure you should use and why they're set up that way? Sounds like the answer should be put in a wiki page, not slack.

All workflows are small components of a larger workplace. Emails also suck for a lot of things. They probably wouldn't have worked in this case, memos are the logical upgrade from emails where you want to make sure everyone receives it and the topic is not up for further discussion.

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[–] nxdefiant@startrek.website 1 points 1 year ago (4 children)

IBM is 100, but the Internet didn't exist in 1924, so we'll say the clock starts in 1989. I'm pretty sure at least MS or IBM will be around in 15 years.

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[–] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

To add to the metal, the blueprints include the blueprints for the processor.

https://hackaday.com/2024/05/06/the-computers-of-voyager/

They don't use a microprocessor like anything today would, but a pile of chips that provide things like logic gates and counters. A grown up version of https://gigatron.io/

That means "written in assembly" means "written in a bespoke assembly dialect that we maybe didn't document very well, or the hardware it ran on, which was also bespoke".

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[–] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Still faster than the average Windows update.

[–] blackluster117@possumpat.io 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] bstix@feddit.dk 3 points 1 year ago

Absolutely. The computers on Voyager hold the record for being the longest continuously running computer of all time.

[–] mjhelto@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

NASA should be in charge of Windows updates!

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[–] fsr1967@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Interviewer: Tell me an interesting debugging story

Interviewee: ...

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[–] pruwybn@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why do Tumblr users approach every topic like a manic street preacher?

[–] fossilesque@mander.xyz 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There's a significant overlap between theatre kids and Tumblr users.

[–] drdiddlybadger@pawb.social 1 points 1 year ago

That ven diagram is maybe 3 degrees away from a circle.

[–] xantoxis@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

I think the term "metal" is overused, but this is probably the most metal thing a programmer could possibly do besides join a metal band.

[–] ristoril_zip@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Keep in mind too these guys are writing and reading in like assembly or some precursor to it.

I can only imagine the number of checks and rechecks they probably go through before they press the "send" button. Especially now.

This is nothing like my loosey goosey programming where I just hit compile or download and just wait to see if my change works the way I expect...

they almost certainly have a hardware spare, or at the very least, an accurately simulated version of it, because again, this is 50 year old hardware. So it's pretty easy to just simulate it.

But yeah they are almost certainly pulling some really fucked QA on this shit.

[–] watersnipje@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 year ago

Man I can’t even get my stupid Azure deployment to work and that’s only in Germany.

[–] LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

It's hard to explain how significant the Voyager 1 probe is in terms of human history. Scientists knew as they were building it that they were making something that would have a significant impact on humanity. It's the first man made object to leave the heliosphere and properly enter the interstellar medium, and this was always just a secondary goal of the probe. It was primarily intended to explore the gas giants, especially the Jovian lunar system. It did its job perfectly and gave us so many scientific discoveries just within our solar system.

And I think there's something sobering about the image of it going on a long, endless road trip into the galactic ether with no destination. It's a pretty amazing way to retire. The fact that even today we get scientific data from Voyager, that so far away we can still communicate with it and control it, is an unbelievable achievement of human ingenuity and scientific progress. If you've never seen the image the Pale Blue Dot you should see it. That linked picture is a revised version of the image made by Nasa and released in 2020. It's part of a group of the last pictures ever taken by Voyager 1 on February 14th 1990, a picture of Earth from 6 billion kilometers away. It's one of my favorite pictures, and it kinda blows my mind every time I see it.

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[–] ikidd@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

When I hear what they did, I was blown away. A 50 year old computer (that was probably designed a decade before launching) and the geniuses that built that put in the facility to completely reprogram it a light-day away.

[–] bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 1 points 1 year ago

I was already impressed when they managed to diagnose a single bit flip a few years ago.

[–] trustnoone@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I just have to imagine how interesting of a challenege that is. Kinda like when old games only had 300kb to store all their data on so you had to program cool tricks to get it all to work.

[–] tarix29@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No yeah, it's like that plus the thing is a light day away, and on top of that malfunctioning on a hardware level. Incredible

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[–] Dark_Dragon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Meanwhile here on Earth, we need to login using two accounts to access Helldivers 2. And even got pulled from many countries. What a time to be alive.

[–] Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone 1 points 1 year ago

Sony has agreed to remove psn requirements for pc users now

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