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... gun-related incidents, including accidents and mass shootings, have become a leading cause of death in the country.
What? Not even close.
this post was submitted on 09 May 2024
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Underlying Cause of Death, 2018-2022, Single Race Results (Persons aged 1-19)
#1 - Firearm
https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D158;jsessionid=E9C7B23A4CABE7AA0CDEFB26390B
Link does not work
PS: Are you including suicides? If so, than maybe it is possible in the 1-19 age group you selected but incredibly misleading and still untrue in general population.
PS2: You can link to the data by clicking save in the top right.
Hey we’re here to move the goalposts, where do you want them?
On the whole population where they belong instead of a carefully selected subset.
Yeah, fuck those kids. They went out and bought those weapons! They can kill themselves if they want!
I agree, we need to be able to threaten everyone we don't like with execution!
steal something? DEATH SENTENCE. vandalize something? DEATH SENTENCE. made me mad? YUP THAT'S A DOUBLE DEATH SENTENCE.
an armed society is a polite society, because I can just shoot you!
/s. if anyone wasn't able to tell
Hell yeah! That’s why I keep a vial of anthrax on me at all times. Never know when you might need it.
You forgot to mention, pull into my driveway on accident, DEATH SENTENCE, served immediately. I need all citizens of the US to be Judge, Jury, and Executioner to feel safe.
child ringing on doorbell? DEATH SENTENCE.
Iirc that dataset does include suicides and accidental discharges.
Because there is no actual need for such a weapon. Nobody outside the military needs a spraynpray gun. Yeah they look sexy to some, i get that, but i can do as much "damage" more accurately with my plainjane hunting rifle.
How in the world is an AR a spray n pray gun? Barrels shorter than 16" require a tax stamp and approval. An AR can be built to be pretty damn accurate. Do you just not like that it's semi auto?
Idk why people go after the AR platform when you can go buy a Barrett .50 cal anti materiel rifle in 49 states, and there's plenty of less scary shaped semi auto rifles out there.
They go after this platform, because it's a favorite of mass shooters. You know this.
Toyota Camrys are also a favorite of car crashers, never you mind that they're one of the most owned cars, correlation=causation dammit!
And wouldnt you know it, BECAUSE cars can do a shitload of damage in the wrong hands, they require years of training and certification to be able to legally operate.
I didn't have to do years of training. I took a 2 week driver's ed course and took a test. Had my provisional as soon as I turned 15.
But on the other side to get a hunting license when I was a kid I had to do a state run hunter safety class to learn about gun safety.
I dont know the Details for the States, but for Canada, the first Test you pass gets you a Learners, in which you arent allowed to drive without a full licence Driver present, and you're only allowed to take your restricted New Driver's license after a year of having an L and not getting any tickets, and then a year after that you can finally get an unrestricted license. Multiple years. But I guess if the states is stupid with itd guns, it'd make sense its stupid with its cars too
We let any idiot with a pulse drive because in most of rural America you'd starve to death without a car
The comments couldn't get more American if it was a competition on making American commentary.
I understand both side of the argument, but at the same time I get neither. American cultural identity in relation to firearms is unique in the Western world. Guns have transcended rights and wrongs. People hunt. People use guns recreationally. People cosplay warriors. Some people use guns for bad reasons. Most people never cause the slightest harm. But in any event, culturally, guns occupy a political position not usually seen in the first world.
I'm not even sure what I am trying to say? I do know this, the debate will never end because the two different positions are completely contradictory and all compromise is effectively lost. I'd be interested in hearing a solution that both sides could live with. It would be a doozy.
You've succinctly defined the problem, and the only solution is a cultural shift away from the norm. Hopefully that shift will be peaceful, which will most likely only happen if it's gradual.
the only solution is a cultural shift
The culture is always shifting. I would not say it has shifted in the direction of safety. On the one hand, you have horders who believe its their civil right to stuff their house with tank shells and miniguns and you can't tell them what to do. On the other, you've got police who will start firing blindly in all directions when an acorn drops, because they're so terrified of anyone else owning a gun.
Together, these seem to suggest a cultural shift towards "You're allowed to own a gun but if you make me scared I'm allowed to shoot you" as a middle ground.
the gun ownership attribute had three levels: no gun ownership, owning a pistol, and owning an AR-15,
This study design is bad, and they should feel bad. If they're going to claim that people are afraid of AR-15s, they should compare it apples-to-apples with other rifles, or just ask about rifles generally, like they did with pistols.
Furthermore, any study asking opinion questions for what should be data-driven decisions are misleading at best and harmful at worst. If your concern is safety in communities, you should study actual safety, not feelings. It appears they want to make people feel safe, while not necessarily increasing safety.
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Fair enough for a general survey question. However, the point about how policy decisions shouldn't be based on opinion/anecdote is still valid (at least in the case of gun control).
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I could understand the argument for factoring people's feelings into policy in some cases, but let's take this study as an example.
Handguns are responsible for far more harm than AR-15s, but this study shows people "fear" AR-15s more. A policy that is based on these findings and not empirical data may attempt to reduce gun violence by addressing AR-15 ownership. Thereby not having a major effect on reducing actual gun violence.
A policy focusing on reducing handgun ownership would be much more effective at reducing gun violence, despite people not fearing them as much.
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I think you're confusing me with other commentors. I haven't suggested this research in particular is being actively used to support policy decisions. Nor have I suggested this research is advocating for policy.
In my initial comment I simply said policy in general (at least with gun control) shouldn't be based on people's feelings/anecdotes.
I think this study asked a very interesting question, and I find the results to be very interesting. I don't really have any issues with this research by itself.
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How people feel is important to know because it will influence how a change needs to be presented.
In this example: A lot of oeople feel safer owning guns, science show they're wrong and it actually decreases their safety, in order to be able to change things in a way that people will accept it that perception needs to be changed.
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I have an AR-15. It's usually in it's case. (I don't have children.) I know plenty of people that have AR-15s, and a few weirdos that prefer AKs (but they're finally seeing the light now that cheap Russian ammo isn't cheap at all any more). It's just such a non-issue for me. My biggest issue is that I would prefer that the people I'm around are safe, as in, have good muzzle awareness, excellent trigger discipline, etc. But the gun itself? I'm fine with AR-15s.
If they have something like an L85A1, anything by KelTec, or an AK, I know that they have deeply suspect judgement, and can not be trusted in any matters of taste.
anything by keltec
You say that, but let's be honest: keltec is a mullet company. They make an array of monotonous pocket pistols, and freaky shit. Nothing in between. You know anybody who has a fun keltec is down for a good time.
I feel like KelTec's motto should be, "All The Cocaine In The US Comes Through Florida".
The hilarious part of this is that statistically, many Americans have AR-15s and other rifles sitting somewhere within a few hundred yards of them. There are countless millions of them.
This would be like polling people about their fears surrounding theoretical concealed weapons when, statistically, they just got home from the grocery store or gas station and there were probably 10 people there carrying guns without incident, and they just didn't know about it.
I may be unaware of the rats living in a small nest inside of a drainspout near me, but that still doesn't mean rats are "okay" or "harmless". So this isn't quite a gotcha about their normality.
The aversion to AR-15 owners was stronger than the aversion to owners of other types of firearms (pistols). When given a choice, the probability that a respondent would prefer to live near someone who owned an AR-15 plummeted by over 20 percentage points, indicating a strong societal preference against this type of gun ownership.
Which, as usual, goes a long way towards illustrating how effective propaganda and manipulation of people's opinions can be. Not just on this specific topic either, but in this case I guess that's what we're talking about. Despite its scientific dressings, what this study is exploring isn't actually any mechanical factor, it is measuring people's perceptions which are not guaranteed to be reflected by reality. (And again, this is true of many other topics as well...)
The AR-15 platform does the same damn thing and shoots the same damn bullet in the same damn way as numerous other firearms, and yet just the name itself has a bad rap from being incessantly repeated in the news and social media.
Here's this old chestnut. It's still true.
Why's the one on top "scarier?"
Tl;dr: Own, store, and handle your gun responsibly. Don't be a paranoid loon. Don't believe in whatever boogeyman Fox News is pushing this week. Don't hyperventilate about fictional distinctions.
Partly because the AR-15 is lighter than the Mini 14, is easier to reload, and is generally designed to meet the modern needs of armies killin' humans better. Then there's the incessant marketing, the huge number of manufacturers at multiple price points (the Mini 14 being a Ruger exclusive), the aftermarket of optics and tacticool accessories, and the general cultural impact. How many Mini 14s have actually been involved in mass shootings and gun-nerd intimidation exercises? It's almost like the least stable assholes are interested in a "badass" gun.
But okay, fine. There's a not-insignificant amount of truth to the graphic. By all means, the gun nerds should put it everywhere and inform the previously ignorant public. I don't think the result will be to convince people the AR-15 is actually useful, just that the Mini-14 is equally unnecessary as a civilian tool or hunting rifle, and they shouldn't assume a wooden-stock rifle is inherently less dangerous than a plastic one.
And, for the record, I am tediously, annoyingly aware of current second-amendment jurisprudence and the lack of sufficient political will to change the constitution, and while I don't think the former is well considered, the situation is what it is. It just sucks. It leaves America unique among stable democracies in having gun violence anywhere near the top of the list of causes of death.
By all means, the gun nerds should put it everywhere and inform the previously ignorant public.
The problem is how rude so many of them are about it.
Instead of "there is no such thing as an 'assault rifle' and here's how that myth got started," it's "define assault rifle." It's this weird assumption that everyone knows as much about guns as they do and it really doesn't help them. I get that it can be a knee-jerk reaction to people who have issues with guns (as is assuming anyone who has issues with guns wants a blanket ban on them), but it really does not help.
Not to go off on a tangent, but it's "assault weapon" that's the boogeyman term, meant to confuse the uninformed with assault rifles. Assault rifles are select fire, full auto and burst fire capable rifles. Assault weapons are semi-automatic rifles that have the same or similar cosmetics as assault rifles.
The trick is a person latches onto the adjective, not the noun, and a rifle is a kind of weapon, so it makes it seem like assault rifles fit under assault weapons, when I'm fact it's the opposite.
It's a distinction without much of a difference, though. Apart from auto and burst fire, a modern AR-15 does everything an M4A1 does. The Marines' M4 and M16A4 models don't even go past burst.
If semi-auto rifles are going to be legal at all, they should have a small integral magazine that's non-trivial to modify. The sheer efficiency of these rifles makes them really good for assaulting humans, because that's what they were designed for.
The brass took away the giggle switch from the crayon eaters to save on their ammo bill. There's a reason "marining" is a verb, after all.
But every gun is designed to kill people, all the way back to the musket. And your suggestion of an integral magazine doesn't do much, even if you could somehow round up all the ARs with detachable mags and "fix" them. The M1 Garand and it's stripper clips are a historic example, and the modern ejection port mag loaders the neutered California ARs have to use make it trivial to reload.
You want to tackle this issue? Safe storage laws, building a culture around free, government-provided training and safety, and harsher punishments for NDs are a place to start. That's not even getting into the quagmire that is our terrible healthcare system, and law enforcement that on average can't do their jobs and act on tips that would stop many of the recent big mass shootings.
I don't know what's more lame, the gun debate or the Kendrick vs Drake beef.
That sounds like a "you" problem rather than any kind substantial critique of either guns or silly feuds.
😘 yes Sir!