this post was submitted on 02 May 2024

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BrikoX@lemmy.zip

Biden calls Japan and India xenophobic: ‘They don’t want immigrants’ (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 6 months ago by BrikoX@lemmy.zip to c/globalnews@lemmy.zip

44 comments fedilink hide all child comments

US president says ‘immigrants are what makes us strong’ and criticizes countries, plus China and Russia, over migration policy

Archived version: https://archive.ph/ovD0O

top 44 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] morrowind@lemmy.ml 48 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Who's tryna immigrate to india?

But yeah all of east asia is anti-immigrant

[–] livus@kbin.social 17 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Refugees from Myanmar and Afghanistan are hosted by India.

[–] tearsintherain@leminal.space 9 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

I call BS. Modi's fundamentalist right wing government is speeding away from secularism towards religious nationalism. India deports Myanmar refugees who fled 2021 coup

[–] livus@kbin.social 6 points 6 months ago (1 children)

@tearsintherain I'm not talking about policy and Modi's posturing though, I'm talking about facts. Who is trying to immigrate there.

Browse the UN's India refugees website, that will tell you everything you need about the thousands of refugees there.

The Myanmar border has had hundreds of people over it this year. Your link says they just deported a few dozen.

As your link points out, India's like the US in that it's not a signatory to the United Nations Convention on Refugees, so their status is precarious. Nevertheless, there refugees in India, that's simply a fact.

[–] tearsintherain@leminal.space 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Yes, there are people fleeing largely from neighboring countries. I don't know how much of that is about choosing India. But religious fanatics have taken power in India. The RSS/BJP analogue in the US might be the Heritage Foundation and Project 2025 and conservatives. India is down a very dark path.

What’s Wrong With the Indian Government’s Narrative on Refugees?

Indian refugee claims in Canada began rising after Prime Minister Modi took power, data shows

[–] livus@kbin.social 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Ah, yeah I agree with that. Modi is very concerning and the plight of refugees right now in India isn't great. Their children are also born stateless.

My focus was on raising awareness that there are refugees there. A lot of people don't seem to realize that most of the world's refugees are actually hosted in low income nations where they have sought refuge.

[–] tearsintherain@leminal.space 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

I see what you mean. Yeah, the focus tends to be on wealthier nations, the west and immigration.

[–] livus@kbin.social 2 points 6 months ago

Thanks for the link to the Diplomat article by the way. It's a good article.

[–] xor@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

The fact that modi's government is trying to deport immigrants doesn't mean that people don't want to move there - in fact, the fact the gov is doing so is the whole point of the article

[–] tearsintherain@leminal.space -1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

An Immigrant is an individual who leaves one’s country to settle in another, whereas refugees are defined as persons, who move out of one’s country due to restriction or danger to their lives.

So as poster rhetorically said, "Who’s tryna immigrate to india?" is valid.

In 2021 and 2022 alone, thousands of Rohingya refugees were either jailed and deported by Indian authorities, had to flee the country, or had to go underground so as to remain untraceable within India.

Indian refugee claims in Canada began rising after Prime Minister Modi took power, data shows Experts say trend indicates 'Canada is recognizing of human rights abuses'

[–] xor@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 6 months ago

Not sure why you felt the need to define both terms, but since you bring it up, note that refugees are a subset of immigrants.

But none of what you've said addresses the point I was making; the fact that Modi is deporting refugees (who are, by definition, a form of immigrant) doesn't mean that nobody wants to migrate to India.

[–] fuckingkangaroos@lemm.ee 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I think also some from Bangladesh, Nepal, and Sri Lanka.

[–] livus@kbin.social 1 points 6 months ago

Yeah, a bunch of places, those are just the two biggest population groups IIRC.

[–] therealjcdenton@lemmy.zip 29 points 6 months ago

Well... They are

[–] Philharmonic3@lemmy.world 15 points 6 months ago

What about Israel? They literally want to establish an ethnostate.

[–] culpritus@hexbear.net 8 points 6 months ago

wonder-who-thats-for

[–] umbrella@lemmy.ml 8 points 6 months ago

they hate immigrants!

-country that hates immigrants

[–] exocrinous@startrek.website 6 points 6 months ago

China has many more racist citizens than the USA.

Cause there's 5 times as many people there.

[–] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Says the segregationist that is continuing and escalating all of Trump's worst immigration policies.

[–] toothpaste_sandwich@feddit.nl 1 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Tu quoque

[–] JohnBrownNote@hexbear.net 3 points 6 months ago

PIGPOOPBALLS

[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 3 points 6 months ago

Three quoque

[+] livus@kbin.social -11 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

EDIT: I'm talking per capita. Aka proportion.

Percentage of US citizens who weren't born in the US is usually around 16%. A bunch of other countries it's more like 27%.

Same with UK these days, 16% as @Jaffa pointed out it's a bad example. Should have gone with one of the others.

In countries with a higher percentage of immigration the percentage is obviously much higher. Here's a handy chart.

Okay Biden now compare yourself to ~~the UK~~ Australia which has about 35% more immigrants than the US.

Or Canada, or Australia, or Singapore, or Switzerland, or New Zealand...

[–] Tikiporch@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I'd love to see your source on that, but when you go look you'll find you were waaaaay off and be too embarrassed to reply that you were wrong.

I'll point you in the right direction though. According to the United Nations, the USA has over five times more immigrants than the UK. Nearly as many immigrants as the UK has people.

[–] livus@kbin.social 7 points 6 months ago

I'm talking per capita. I've now edited the above comment and added a source.

Sorry for the confusion, I don't know why I thought that since I was talking about percentages it would be obvious I'm referring to per capita numbers, because re-reading my comment I see it's ambiguous.

But come on, have a heart. New Zealand only has 5 million people in it, total. You must think I'm incredibly, mindblowingly stupid if you think I'm saying the US somehow has fewer immigrants than that!

[–] Jaffa@lemm.ee 6 points 6 months ago (2 children)

This is not right, even per capita the US has a higher % o immigrants than the UK, although they are lower than some of the countries you mention.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/immigration-by-country

[–] jumjummy@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Interesting that the site lists “residents” and then has Saudi Arabia way up there. I wonder what those numbers would be like if they didn’t count their ~~slaves~~ foreign workers.

[–] livus@kbin.social 2 points 6 months ago

I don't like that website but you're right, the UK are about the same as the US with just 15 or 16%.

I thought they were the same as the rest of the anglosphere but they're not! Shouldn't have picked them to make my point, should have picked Australia after all. Will edit.

My point still stands though. He had a really low bar of comparison, and if he knows immigration is what makes you strong then the obvious implication is he should be amping for more immigration.

Idk it just seemed like a really weird speech.

[+] ArbiterXero@lemmy.world -28 points 6 months ago (3 children)

Japan doesn’t have the space, and India already has the population…… what’s his point?

[–] SuperApples@lemmy.world 32 points 6 months ago (2 children)

I am currently living rent-free in Japan because there's so many empty houses that just need looking after.

Everywhere in Japan has a declining population except Tokyo and Osaka, and both cities are well designed and don't feel crowded. I think Japan is around the 50th most densely populated country, but the very well designed public transport systems and well planned (and mostly hidden!) highways make it so much more open and walk-able than many less densely populated places.

The only place that feels crowded is Kyoto and that's because it was never built to sustain the level of tourism it attracts.

Japan has a limitless water supply. They don't even charge for the stuff in many places (like here). The agriculture industry is strong and supplies most of the food.

The country is still like 70%+ untouched forest.

Japanese policy and mainstream culture is xenophobic and racist, mostly towards Asians (and indigenous people, and lower caste people), but starting to improve based on sheer desperation because of the declining population and economy. Unfortunately, few have the language competency required to work here, and basically no one here can speak English, which makes it really hard to attract people, as the government has not put in the support measures like Korea (a more densely populated place with an even lower birthrate!). It's not uncommon to see Desi, Vietnamese and Thai workers in convenience stores in Tokyo now though.

[–] Uruanna@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago (1 children)

The country is still like 70%+ untouched forest.

Slow down, that shouldn't change.

[–] tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip 5 points 6 months ago

There's a mountain range that runs essentially down the middle of the entire country, which makes human habitation largely untenable in those areas. No one's coming for the forest there.

[–] Obi@sopuli.xyz 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Very cool. How hard was it to emigrate? Did you learn the language?

[–] SuperApples@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I learned the language during high school, working in Japan after that, then doing a lot of translation work work back in Australia. In recent years we just visit visa-free for three months each year, and stay in this old house up north in exchange for doing a few jobs around the place to stop it deteriorating further after the winter chill.

If we wanted to live here full-time we'd have to get local jobs, but I have zero interest in working for a Japanese company. Would sooner start my own business, which has gotten easier recently but is still highly monitored for the first few years.

[–] Obi@sopuli.xyz 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Nice. Yeah a friend of mine is trying to move there but it's taking him many years, also learned the language etc and playing the visa games. I never been and have so much expectations from it I want to make it special when I go, but I know immigration isn't for me because I don't think I can be arsed learning the language.

[–] PlexSheep@infosec.pub 1 points 6 months ago

Learning Japanese takes a lot of effort. I'm in it for over one year and I still find myself amazed at anything I understand, even it's gotten more common.

[–] Melkath@kbin.social 22 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Also incorrect.

Largely due to the birthrate crisis and a problem with abandoned homes, Japan is trying to entice people from other countries and of child bearing age to sign contracts where they get an abandoned home for dirt cheap if they commit to renovating the home and living in it for at least 10 years.

[–] nahuse@sh.itjust.works 5 points 6 months ago (2 children)

If this is the case, can you please provide some proof?

I’m sure there are plenty of people who would love to take advantage of such a program.

[–] Melkath@kbin.social 11 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Sure, I can google for you.

https://tokyoportfolio.com/can-foreigners-buy-a-home-in-japan/

[–] nahuse@sh.itjust.works 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I’m not interested in whether foreigners can buy houses, so your Google search on my behalf is useless and doesn’t support your assertion.

I’m interested in how the Japanese government is supposedly enticing people of child bearing ages there. I also do not see anything in the link you provided about agreeing to upkeep the home for 10 years in exchange for very cheap pricing.

Do you have any evidence of these programs?

[–] Cheradenine@sh.itjust.works 4 points 6 months ago

The houses are called Akiya. Most are rural but they exist in cities too.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social 3 points 6 months ago

As another guy living in Japan (not rent-free though; I live in Osaka) this place is ridiculously well designed. Even Osaka (3rd biggest city in Japan after Tokyo and Yokohama) has enough space you could easily take in a whole bunch of people before it becomes even uncomfortably crowded.