Obligatory reminder to watch Technology Connections on the correct sizing and backups - the initial quote might be 2x or 3x what you need.
this post was submitted on 14 Apr 2024
133 points (98.5% liked)
Climate - truthful information about climate, related activism and politics.
5289 readers
429 users here now
Discussion of climate, how it is changing, activism around that, the politics, and the energy systems change we need in order to stabilize things.
As a starting point, the burning of fossil fuels, and to a lesser extent deforestation and release of methane are responsible for the warming in recent decades:
How much each change to the atmosphere has warmed the world:
Recommended actions to cut greenhouse gas emissions in the near future:
Anti-science, inactivism, and unsupported conspiracy theories are not ok here.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Is there an even longer version? Technology Connections is like LOTR - an extra few hours is always welcome.
Do you have a link? I can’t seem to find it.
Someone else linked the main video, here is the playlist.
Basics:
- It's just an air conditioner with an extra valve to reverse the flow.
- They work in much colder weather than you are imagining.
- They are more efficient than you are imagining.
- They are even better if you look for the latest models coming out of the far east.
- Actually do the calculations for how much power you need - don't just let the installers say "This house currently has x kW of heating, therefore it will need an x kW heat pump" (same for the air conditioning mode)
- It's probably better to have a resistive heat backup for occasional extreme-cold days than to have an oversized heat pump.
Yeah, the biggest problem is mentality, I find. People expect to walk into a freezing cold house, thonk the BOOST button and have bouncing radiators in fifteen minutes. Heat Pumps ideally need to be left to their thermostats to maintain the temperature.
How is this even a question? Heat pumps have been standard in new homes for at least 40 years now.
Don't know what municipality/region/state/country you're from, but that's not the case here
The article is about NYC where buildings are all much older than 50 years. But for the rest of the country? Everyone has known that heat pumps are more efficient for decades which is why they are standard for all new installs. Unless you live in northern Canada, they save money which is why everyone chooses them. Of course there is backup heat for extreme cold which is why it's always hybrid heatpump with electric or glass backup.
Smart thermostats are what make them really good. In climates where it gets really cold, you need to have a way to switch over from pumping cold air to pumping hot air to using a secondary heat source.
It wouldn't have to be that smart, or even networked. A z80 or 8008 processor would have been plenty. High end systems could have done it in the 70s, with costs coming down quickly through the 80s.
In climates where it gets really cold, you need to have a way to switch over from pumping cold air to pumping hot air to using a secondary heat source.
That's standard for all whole house heat pumps and has been for forever. ( as opposed to the mini split heatpumps where it's a heatpump for one room in a house).
Not in all US states and not in all countries. And some climate deniers are even fear-mongering people against heat pumps.
They haven't been standard in colder parts of the US — people use natural gas, propane, or fuel oil depending on where in the country.
I can believe that because many people choose the absolute cheapest solution rather than looking at the 5-10 year cost of ownership.
Technology connections YouTuber is in Chicago and chose a heat pump because it's cheaper. I have a relative in Minnesota and they are on a ground sourced heatpump because it's so much cheaper long term.
There's not much population in the US further north than the middle of Minnesota.
Last time I looked in to it I'd still need a supplemental heater for when it's too cold for the heat pump to be effective (there were a handful of weeks just this/last year where we would be in trouble) in Chicago.
Ground source makes a lot more sense for new construction where you're already digging.
Backup heat is standard with all whole house heat pumps. You pick electric or gas based on cost.
Also doesn’t help that a lot of houses in the US are just really old and still have their original fossil fuel based heating.
The main reason I'd be hesitant to get one is because I don't really ever set my thermostat to heat. Even during the once-in-a-lifetime freeze a few years ago, we never ran any heaters (granted, we live in an apartment, so only like 2.5 walls are exposed to the outside - would be very different in an actual house, but I'd still rather opt for better insulation, a single space heater, and a heated blanket over spending that same money on a heat pump that does nothing for years at a time).
If you live in an apartment, it's not your choice but the owner's? And a heatpump is an air conditioner in the summer. They cost about the same so why not have the option to heat too?
It's often not even the homeowners choice; gas companies bribe homebuilders to install gas appliances.
I'd love to, can someone convince my landlord?
Talk to them about how the high price of heating is making it tough for people to pay rent.
“I’ll just find someone who can afford it”
Seriously though — if they move you to heat pumps, it can make it cheaper, which means that they end up collecting rent instead of the propane company or oil company.
I have a few people I know that installed heat pumps about 10 or 12 years ago, and they have failed at this point. The cost to repair is more than a new heat pump and they are just getting a standard Ac unit and using the backup gas furnace that has minimal hours on it as the main heat source now.
I feel like this is more inherent obsolescence of the companies making parts and not so much the tech itself?
It's definitely possible to buy low-quality appliances and end up with something which fails sooner than you'd want. That's true of every appliance out there.
There's a reason there are Consumer Reports reliability ratings for heat pumps — like they have for every other major appliance.
I agree that it might be a problem of lower-quality appliances. Anecdotally, mine is 20 years old and was repaired recently (some parts had to be manufactured as they don't make them anymore) and still works.
Is there an open alternative for Consumer Reports? The content of this link is blocked without a subscription it seems like. Thx!
There are other similar publications like the New York Times Wirecutter, but they're not generally available without a subscription.
I recommend paying a visit to your local library if you're thinking of buying a major appliance; in the US at least, libraries tend to have all the relevant subscriptions and can get you access.