this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2023
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Lemmy.World Announcements

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Earlier, after review, we blocked and removed several communities that were providing assistance to access copyrighted/pirated material, which is currently not allowed per Rule #1 of our Code of Conduct. The communities that were removed due to this decision were:

We took this action to protect lemmy.world, lemmy.world's users, and lemmy.world staff as the material posted in those communities could be problematic for us, because of potential legal issues around copyrighted material and services that provide access to or assistance in obtaining it.

This decision is about liability and does not mean we are otherwise hostile to any of these communities or their users. As the Lemmyverse grows and instances get big, precautions may happen. We will keep monitoring the situation closely, and if in the future we deem it safe, we would gladly reallow these communities.

The discussions that have happened in various threads on Lemmy make it very clear that removing the communites before we announced our intent to remove them is not the level of transparency the community expects, and that as stewards of this community we need to be extremely transparent before we do this again in the future as well as make sure that we get feedback around what the planned changes are, because lemmy.world is yours as much as it is ours.

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[–] pankuleczkapl@lemmy.world 207 points 2 years ago (31 children)

These communities are not even hosted on lemmy.world, this is an absurdly overreacted response. There were no signs of any legal trouble and I can't understand how lemmy.world specifically would be the target of such legal action. If you want to host an instance, you should do everything in your power to allow discussions on any topic, while in necessary cases disallowing direct posting/linking of illegal content. Instead, you chose to block a community that has long been known to avoid having any trouble with the moderators.

[–] TurboLag@lemmings.world 63 points 2 years ago (3 children)

And on top of this, the removals were done following the request from a troll account, by a user involved in far more questionable discussions than the legal discussions currently going on in the now-removed communities. Should no attempt be made to differentiate between a legit legal concern and trolling?

[–] OverfedRaccoon@lemm.ee 29 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Good ol' Bungiefan_ak, creating troll accounts on any instance that'll have them to troll all things piracy and post transphobic and hateful shit wherever they go.

[–] NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

What is it about Destiny that attracts pieces of shit?

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[–] lwadmin@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (40 children)

Doesn't matter if they are hosted here or not. The way federation works is that threads on different instances are cached locally.

We have NO issues with the people at db0 - we are just looking out for ourselves in a 'better safe than sorry' fashion while we find out more. As mentioned in the OP we would like to unblock as soon as we know we can not get in any legal trouble.

"we are just looking out for ourselves in a 'better safe than sorry' fashion while we find out more."

This is an unfortunate aspect of individuals/small groups housing the fediverse vs big companies. Big companies have lawyers and the capital to back them, individuals do not.

If I was in your shoes, I'd do the same thing. I appreciate your wish for thus to be temporary. I hope you will share your findings once you come to a final decision; information like this is relevant to all those managing servers.

[–] nickhammes@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (5 children)

What needs to happen for you to be confident you won't get in legal trouble, and thus unblock them? Change on the db0 side? Lemmy.world admins getting legal representation/advice? Something else? I'm curious how you all see this playing it out in the future.

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[–] kiwifoxtrot@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The content is hosted on lemmy.world - that's how the fediverse works. Each instance pushes updates to other instances and they host it locally for their users. The issue is that the admins here can't moderate a community not on their instance. So if an instance is located somewhere it is legal, it might not be legal at the location of another instance.

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[–] gabe@literature.cafe 86 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Please make announcements on lemmy instead of exclusively on discord moving forward. That is the biggest issue here, the lack of public transparency. Such a decision affects all instances, not just lemmy.world and making it publicly known is important

[–] lwadmin@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children)

This was a misunderstanding from one of the team members. It has since been discussed and will not happen again. Lemmy.World and this announcement community is our primary platform,

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] Kbobabob@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Yeah. You misunderstood that they are liars.

[–] gabe@literature.cafe 6 points 2 years ago

Thank you. It is appreciated.

[–] Martineski@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)
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[–] remotelove@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

Speaking of removed communities, can an admin respond to this please: https://lemmy.world/post/3165787

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[–] joe@lemmy.world 43 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (7 children)

Uh, @lwadmin@lemmy.world .. what's up with the banning going on in this thread? I noticed on a.lemmy.org that someone was labeled "banned" and their comment was simply "Ight, I’m out"

The mod note was "Let us help you".

There are more similarly weak (spiteful?) bans that certainly don't seem to be at a standard for a ban. "Litterally 1984" was another one. Is that all it takes to be banned here?

Edit: Many (all?) the users I referenced as banned are now unbanned from the site, but now banned from this community.

[–] gabe@literature.cafe 18 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The "ight I'm out" ban note was.... hm. Not a great look. Comes across as petty and vindictive.

[–] joe@lemmy.world 28 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (6 children)

There are worse, imo.

user @snake posted:

Did you ever consider ceding ownership of the instance to an entity with greater legal capabilities?

In the end, it will not make sense to try to keep this instance running if the owners are unable to provide adequate service to its users.

and was banned for:

reason: Go get your service somewhere else

Definitely not a great look.

[–] gabe@literature.cafe 22 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)

Lemmy.world admins, I am truly asking you to please reflect on how bad this looks. It honestly makes you seem like you can't handle criticism and if people get that vibe they will use it to absolutely fuck with you. I know from my own personal experience. I understand that you're volunteers but this is a step in a very bad direction that will only serve to cause more issues.

[–] foggy@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Agree.

This decisions seems emotionally driven. That will not work on the internet.

You created rules. Use your rules to make your decisions. Don't use your emotions.

It won't only bring the site into disarray, it will bring you moderators and your emotional states into disarray.

Make your rules as black and white as poasible. where grayness raises, create new rules.

[–] Haui@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 2 years ago

Can someone please post this stuff on lemmy world in its own thread? This needs to be brought to attention.

The people responsible for this need to then either concede that they have done wrong, leave or otherwise be made to leave.

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[–] ricdeh@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I hope that this demonstrates to people that the oppressive reddit behaviour is not confined to special individuals (such running major social media sites), but is a systematic occurance in online forums. Simply switching from one toxically moderated space to another is not a solution. But this is where the strength of ActivityPub/fediverse lies: we are able to leave for another server while still using the same fundamental service and being able to interact with the same content as before. I would recommend startrek.website as a new or second home for those who wish to migrate.

[–] joe@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I'm probably being overly cynical, but I have a pretty unflattering option of volunteer moderators and the type of people that seek out such seemingly thankless positions-- and their motivations for doing so. I know this might seem-- bizarre-- considering where I am posting this, but I think it nonetheless.

I like lemmy because there's a modlog to see these things. I do not believe that these users would be unbanned if it hadn't been noticed in the modlog. And it appears they're unbanned from the sitewide ban, but still banned in the community. Not sure what sense that makes.

If your instance gets big enough, you'll also have to deal with petty tyrants seeking out positions of petty power.

[–] M0oP0o@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Just wondering and looking at the mod log for one admin and maybe I am crazy but are they unbanning and rebaning users? (Keep in mind it goes new on top):

  • admin Banned @snake from the community Lemmy.world Announcements reason: troll
  • admin Unbanned @snake
  • admin Banned @soviettaters from the community Lemmy.world Announcements reason: Troll
  • admin Unbanned @soviettaters
  • admin Unbanned @ilfi
  • admin Removed Comment Spineless pieces of shit. by @sused reason: toxic
  • admin Banned @sused reason: Bye
  • admin Banned@ilfi reason: Inactive account comes back to troll. Bye
[–] joe@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

They're unbanning them from a sitewide ban and then immediately banning them from the lemmyworld community.

[–] gabe@literature.cafe 4 points 2 years ago

What in the hell?

[–] Weslee@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

The next Reddit/Lemmy is going to be ran by AI lol, us humans are too easily corrupted by power

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[–] DharkStare@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (15 children)

Reading all these comments it's clear that a lot of people have unrealistic ideas regarding what Lemmy and the Fediverse are supposed to be (or maybe it's me with weird ideas).

The Fediverse is just a bunch of apps that can all communicate with each other through a shared protocol. There is no requirement for them to be free speech platforms or host everything. The whole purpose of defederation supports the idea that instances are free to associate or disassociate with whichever instances they want. Furthermore, nearly every guide I read on joining Lemmy state that you should choose instances to join based on shared ideals/beliefs.

For everyone saying "I'm leaving lemmy.world" I say "Good. That's what you're supposed to do." When the instance you join no longer aligns with what you want, you go to another instance and then you'll be back to viewing all the communities you want to see. That is what the Fediverse is all about and how it's designed.

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[–] nickknack@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
[–] turkishdelight@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago

lemmy.world has become reddit.

[–] spez_@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Stop blocking things. Piracy is ethical

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[–] zikk_transport2@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (2 children)

What part is illegal? Are they sharing files on that instance and your instance re-hosts it?

From my understanding, discussions are legal, guides are legal, tips are legal, but actual files (aka "copyrighted content") is illegal. There are no files shared there, links at maximum, but institutions should be after those content-sharing websites, not forums.

I am against this decision and I am happy that I am not part of admins team.

[–] Tarquinn2049@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Keep in mind, The Pirate Bay is "technically" not breaking any laws... how has that been going for them? You don't have to break laws to get in trouble if you are pissing off rich people. They'll find something, anything, to nail you on. It's totally ok for random normal people to not want to be "heroes" to a bunch of other random people they don't know. Heroes attract villains, and instability. And while it's just starting to get off the ground, lemmy doesn't need villains or instability.

Let the smaller, less visible servers do the shady but "totally technically legal" stuff. Big servers with big targets on their forehead need to be stable and drama-free.

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[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago

If you're going to ban piracy you should also ban all pro copyright communities and comments, it's only fair.

Yeeeep. I stopped using my LW account once you people simped to Facebook federation.

[–] tilefan@lemm.ee 7 points 10 months ago (4 children)

good thing I followed the advice not to use lemmy.world lol

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[–] crag@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Oh no. Wtf. Do you know what's funny? I actually joined this instance from piracy subreddit.

I guess it's time to leave.

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[–] TGhost@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 year ago

Thats why you all should chose an another instance.

[–] aldalire@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 year ago

grabs popcorn

  • me, a lemmy.dbzer0.com native
[–] esty@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 years ago

is this the new most downvoted post on lemmy?

[–] Odo@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Lovely this happened because someone complained after being banned from the piracy instance for being a transphobic asshole.

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[–] Squizzy@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (38 children)

Surely there is a discussion to be had around what is and isn't allowed, there are plenty of subreddits discussing piracy without dolirect links that are playing within the rules.

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[–] brutallyhonestcritic@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

πŸ‘ŽπŸΏπŸ‘ŽπŸΏ BOO! πŸ‘ŽπŸΏπŸ‘ŽπŸΏ

πŸ‘ŽπŸΏπŸ‘ŽπŸΏ BOO! πŸ‘ŽπŸΏπŸ‘ŽπŸΏ

πŸ‘ŽπŸΏπŸ‘ŽπŸΏ BOO! πŸ‘ŽπŸΏπŸ‘ŽπŸΏ

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